 Mastodon is for the WordPress community and what they can do to improve their instances to foster a better meeting place.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Key findings from the survey have been <a href=\"https://github.com/danielauener/toot-the-word\">published</a> alongside the <a href=\"https://github.com/danielauener/toot-the-word/blob/main/toot-the-word-survey-2023.raw.csv\">raw data</a> on GitHub for anyone to analyze. More than 82% of respondents (172/209) said they frequently use Mastodon. The community is active and Mastodon is an important social channel for those who have adopted it in addition to their other networks.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>A few other highlights from the published findings include: </p>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li>Nearly all participants of the survey expect Mastodon to have some kind of influence on the WordPress community in the future, a majority thinks Mastodon will be very influential or extremely influential. Most of the participants want to see more WordPress content and community discussions on Mastodon in the future.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Generally, users on WordPress-oriented instances state that the communication with the community on Mastodon is important to their WordPress-related social media activity. They also are working with the community, or state that they are WordPress Community influencers, more often than users on common instances.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>The survey also found that the respondents who rated themselves as important to the WordPress community seem higher in WordPress-related instances, which may mean that those looking for more relevant WordPress-related content and interactions are better-suited joining these existing instances rather than unrelated ones or creating their own.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>&#8220;For me as an instance admin, it&#8217;s important to know that all the work I&#8217;m doing means something for the tooters on my instance and the entire community,&#8221; wptoot.social administrator Daniel Auener told the Tavern. &#8220;I think the survey has shown that many in the still small WP/Mastodon community see this network as important as I do. So I&#8217;m quite confident (as many of the surveys participants) that Mastodon will have its place in the WordPress community.&#8221; </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Administrating a Mastodon instance is not trivial. The users depend on the administrator to keep everything up and running with system updates, hosting, community moderation, curating community lists, and other housekeeping tasks. Auener said his current hosting costs are $20-30/month and they are 70-80% covered by <a href=\"https://www.buymeacoffee.com/wptoots\">one-time donations</a> and commitments on Patreon.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>&#8220;If nothing more, the [survey] results will keep me and my wptoots-instance going,&#8221; Auener said. &#8220;I even hope that the results will show others within the community that Mastodon as a social network is worth supporting and finding their own ways to contribute.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Auener hasn&#8217;t planned anything specific yet but based on the results it is clear that participants want to have more WordPress content in their timelines. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>&#8220;I think one of the best ways of achieving that would be to onboard more WordPress sites to the fediverse via ActivityPub,&#8221; he said. &#8220;Working in that direction is something I&#8217;m thinking about.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>There is an <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/activitypub/\">ActivityPub</a> plugin for WordPress that implements the ActivityPub protocol for so that readers can follow your site&#8217;s posts on Mastodon and other federated platforms that support ActivityPub. It is currently used by more than 2,000 WordPress sites and is one avenue for users to automate sharing their content  across the fediverse. A search for Mastodon plugins turns up <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/search/mastodon/\">several other auto sharing plugins</a> and Jetpack is also considering <a href=\"https://github.com/Automattic/jetpack/issues/7790\">adding Mastodon support to Publicize</a> after many requests on a ticket opened in 2017.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Some Mastodon users on other instances have considered switching to a WordPress-oriented instance, so increasing education for users on how to move to a new instance is another improvement Auener is considering.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>&#8220;The data even seems to support that the quality of (WordPress-)conversation is better on our instances,&#8221; he said. &#8220;So spreading that information, helping people to move and keeping our instances a safe space for great WordPress discussions is another cause for action.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Joining Mastodon&#8217;s federated network is still intimidating for some who are not familiar with how the instances work and are not sure which one to join. Others fear they may lose out on interactions and connections by moving to a lesser-used social network. This survey indicates that the WordPress-related instances are active and important to the community interacting there. Auener has created a document called <a href=\"https://www.danielauener.com/the-wordpressers-guide-to-the-fediverse/\">The WordPressers Guide to the Fediverse</a> for those who are new and want to learn more.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>&#8220;I would like to align my work more with the WordPress community and the work all the amazing people in the community teams and initiatives do,&#8221; he said. &#8220;I&#8217;m quite new in the game and think I can learn a lot from people working within the community for years. I think Mastodon/the Fediverse aligns very well with WordPress values but there is still a lot of convincing to do.&#8221;</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 10 Mar 2023 22:43:55 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"Sarah Gooding\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:21;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:63:\"Post Status: Launching a WordPress Product in Public: Session 4\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:32:\"https://poststatus.com/?p=148107\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:73:\"https://poststatus.com/launching-a-wordpress-product-in-public-session-4/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:89300:\"<div class=\"is-layout-flow wp-block-group eplus-wrapper has-theme-palette-2-color has-theme-palette-8-background-color has-text-color has-background\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container\"><div class=\"wp-block-post-excerpt\"><p class=\"wp-block-post-excerpt__excerpt\"><a href=\"https://twitter.com/coreymaass\">Corey Maass</a> and <a href=\"https://twitter.com/corymiller303\">Cory Miller</a> continue laying the groundwork for the launch of their new plugin <a href=\"https://crop.express/#welcome\">Crop.Express</a>. They strategize ways to attract customers and agencies and gain full adoption as they integrate changes from user feedback. </p></div>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-spacer eplus-wrapper\"></div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"yoast-reading-time__wrapper\"><span class=\"yoast-reading-time__icon\"></span><span class=\"yoast-reading-time__spacer\"></span><span class=\"yoast-reading-time__descriptive-text\">Estimated reading time:  </span><span class=\"yoast-reading-time__reading-time\">73</span><span class=\"yoast-reading-time__time-unit\"> minutes</span></p>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://poststatus.com/planet/feed/#h-transcript\">Transcript</a> ↓</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In this episode, <a href=\"https://twitter.com/coreymaass\">Corey Maass</a> and <a href=\"https://twitter.com/corymiller303\">Cory Miller</a> focus on preparing <a href=\"https://crop.express/#welcome\">Crop.Express</a> for launch. They discuss building launch assets, utilizing a freemium model as a path toward a premium product, and future possibilities.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Top Takeaways:</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><strong>Value of a Soft Launch</strong>. This is a great way to test the waters and get initial feedback. If you utilize a soft launch, you need to be willing to make changes and improvements based on that feedback before you fully launch.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Building a Sustainable Premium Product.</strong> Start by setting up a basic website and integration to attract customers. Establishing a freemium model allows you to identify what users will value enough to pay for and provides space for your plugin to become a recommended tool for users, agencies, and hosting providers as a premium product.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Feedback as Fuel</strong>. Gathering input from customers and agency owners in the WordPress ecosystem can help you understand the barriers to adoption, like already established workflows, the challenge of installing and learning a new tool, and limitations within initial versions to full adoption.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Importance of Image Use.</strong> Current workflows make images an afterthought in content creation, but they are critical to drawing interest, provide context, and evoke emotion. While there may be SEO value, the primary purpose is to appeal to human visitors. Creating tools to make this easier is the case for Crop.Express.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Consider the possibilities.</strong> As product creators, you should continue to explore potential opportunities for development. Leveraging AI, increasing user engagement, and offering more value can uncover future revenue streams while you focus on current integration points.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n\n</div>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"eplus-wrapper\" id=\"h-mentioned-in-the-show\"><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f517.png\" alt=\"🔗\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> Mentioned in the show:</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://crop.express/\">Crop.Express</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.canva.com/\">Canva</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop.html\">Photoshop</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.stockunlimited.com/\">Stock Unlimited</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://unsplash.com/\">Unsplash</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://contentjourney.com/\">Content Journey</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://news.ycombinator.com/\">Hacker News</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.wpbeaverbuilder.com/\">Beaver Builder</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://twitter.com/pmgarman\">Patrick Garman</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://twitter.com/hluehrsen\">Hendrick Luehrsen</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://elementor.com/%5C\">Elementor</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://twitter.com/renewabelle\">Jess Frick</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://pressable.com/\">Pressable</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.kadencewp.com/\">Kadence</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"eplus-wrapper\" id=\"h-you-can-follow-post-status-and-our-guests-on-twitter\"><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f426.png\" alt=\"🐦\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> You can follow Post Status and our guests on Twitter:</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"eplus-wrapper\">\n<li><a href=\"http://twitter.com/coreymaass\">Corey Maass</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://twitter.com/corymiller303\">Cory Miller</a> (CEO, <a href=\"https://twitter.com/post_status\">Post Status</a>)</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://twitter.com/lemonadecode\">Olivia Bisset</a> (Intern, <a href=\"https://twitter.com/post_status\">Post Status</a>)</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"eplus-wrapper has-background\">The <strong>Post Status Draft</strong> podcast is geared toward WordPress professionals, with interviews, news, and deep analysis. <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f4dd.png\" alt=\"📝\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /><br /><br /><a href=\"https://poststatus.com/category/post-status-podcasts/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Browse our archives</a>, and don’t forget to subscribe via <a href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/post-status-draft-wordpress/id976403008\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">iTunes</a>, <a href=\"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS8ySkU5c2M4UA\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Google Podcasts</a>, <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/c/PostStatus\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">YouTube</a>, <a href=\"http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/krogsgard/post-status-draft-wordpress-podcast\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Stitcher</a>, <a href=\"https://wordpress-post-status-draft-podcast.simplecast.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Simplecast</a>, or <a href=\"https://feeds.simplecast.com/2JE9sc8P\">RSS</a>. <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f3a7.png\" alt=\"🎧\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /></p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"eplus-wrapper\" id=\"h-transcript\">Transcript</h2>\n\n\n\n<h2>Session 4 Corey & Cory Launch a WordPress Product Live</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> [00:00:00] Uh, host status YouTube channel so we can hopefully period when that pops up. Oh, I\'m signed into the wrong account, but yeah. Um, cuz it seems like people were commenting there. So session four live,  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>we\'re streaming, hopping out the chat because if people are asking us questions and stuff, I\'d love to know about it and interact with it.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Okay. We\'re live. Cool. YouTube, baby. All&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> right, let\'s get it. You ready?&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Internet.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Internet.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> Famous. That\'ll get us maybe a coffee, right?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Hey everybody, welcome back to session four. [00:01:00] Corey and Corey launching a WordPress product in public. Today we\'re gonna be talking about some website tweak continuing on from last week, and some feature discussion that the other Corey\'s been working on. Um, and we\'re&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> live, Corey, we are Awesome. Session four.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So that\'s, that Marks four weeks. Um, and two what, two weeks or a week since, uh, the plugin was accepted. Um, and we should go look at, uh, let\'s see, word press. I\'m looking at the plugin. In the repo, it still says fewer than 10. So, you know, the harsh reality right, is, is you launch something and you get really excited and you tell your friends about it, um, and the, the repo, and you go and, uh, or.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>One, not necessarily [00:02:00] me, goes and installs it on as many websites as I own, which is a lot trying to make, you know, total, um, what do they call vanity metrics to make it look like we\'re installed on a bunch of websites. Um, but the, you know, the plug-in repo only gives you fewer than 10, and then groups of 10, and then a hundred groups of hundred.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So you never really know how many installs you have.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> I think this is the moment, uh, when you push your art or your work into the light of day in public and you\'re like, the tendency is to go, oh man, I thought a million people were gonna activate this. I think we\'ve been really reasonable and practical about it, but I just know from my past is you, you get so excited, you think you\'re on the right path.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>You\'d launch it and you\'re like, Crickets. Cool. Crickets are trippy. Right? Um, [00:03:00] man, that\'s happened so many times and you know, the typical marketing thing is to go, okay, build up buzz to a launch. You know? And we were like, we did it . Here it is . And I, I, I don\'t know how you feel, but I personally would rather launch something than build.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>I, I know it\'s probably better from a marketing perspective to build up to a launch to use things like product launch formula and stuff like that to like create a compelling story and I\'m just like, or you could push publish. Right. You know, and I think we\'ve had reasonable expectations about it. Not that it would hit a million, you know, active installs or anything like that.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, but this is the point where I tend to probably have that little moment of deflation. Mm-hmm. . Um, but I\'m not, I\'m, I\'m, I\'m shoving past that. I\'m like, you know, because we, we didn\'t have a big email list to send it to. We\'ve been [00:04:00] putting in post status in our personal channels. Um, but we talked about last week, like key thing was like feedback from people.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so I knew on my list was to talk to content journey about this. Um, because they do so much content production, those people in the use case, the avatar that like does it all the time. Um, but to me, Corey, I\'m curious, your, your perspective on all this too haven\'t launched so many products is there\'s, you, you wait for that cataly moment where you go, we got something.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>You know, you and I feel had that together. Cause we\'re like, I want this, you know, but now we\'re building to some unknown moment where it\'s like, okay, we got something. Well, and it\'s,&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> yeah, it\'s getting something out there. I, I view where we\'re at. I, I. Have done it dozens of times and I view it as a soft launch.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Right? So it\'s, uh, we put it out there. Um, [00:05:00] and frankly I\'d rather it build slowly and then, uh, at some point we are going to have, you know, we we\'re technically at version 0 0 1. Um, and so at some point we\'re gonna launch. Zero one or one . And that\'s when we, in my mind, you know, marketing actually starts, or we put effort into it, or when we start, when we\'ve got, um, something for sale.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>You know, that\'s when we start putting effort into okay, getting it out there. But to me, this is, this is the soft launch. We want a few people to wander into our restaurant, hopefully, at least some of them are friendly faces and they\'re the ones that are gonna be like, um, you don\'t have any knives, which has actually happened to me over the weekend.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>We went to a soft launch of a new restaurant and they literally didn\'t have knives. And so I, we were eating chicken and waffles with plastic forks, and so you had to stab the whole chicken breast and like, [00:06:00] take a bite and then put it back down on your plate, you know, but it\'s like great work out the kinks.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, the, the thing I struggle with honestly is getting, That there\'s times when I build a product that I immediately start using. And, and so to me now the, the difference of a soft launch is, is just building something for me to use it. Um, and here I\'m not yet comfortable, and this is something I\'ve been sort of asking myself about.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>It\'s like I\'m using it on a couple of my own websites, but I\'m not yet putting it in front of my clients other than showing it to them. But I haven\'t like, installed it and told them, this is what you\'re now using. And so I\'m still looking at the UI and, and going, okay, why, what, what features are lacking?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, or you know, why don\'t I have confidence in [00:07:00] the, we\'ve, to me, we\'ve technically proven that we can solve the problem, but it\'s not. Elegant enough or friendly enough or simple enough for non-technical people to use. Um, so that\'s kind of where I\'m at. And so I, to me, I feel like we\'re waiting for feedback from all quarters, um, including our own, before taking more steps forward with the actual&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> product.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So that\'s an interesting thing, uh, that you said right there is, um, because I went, obviously installed it, used the live version on my site, and, um, immediately I was like, I need, I still need this. I\'m not, I know I need it for featured image, you know, but I ne I feel like just from a user perspective, I go, I need this for other [00:08:00] things on my site.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Like mm-hmm. , I was doing a page on my personal site and I was like, And this comes back to our original conversation, um, being able to crop things appropriately in WordPress. I already bump up to my bet still on this cuz I, I want it as the custom specifications. Um, I found myself, I think I used, you know, the circle thing you did?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yep. Uh, the circle crop. I was like, I needed it for something. It wasn\'t a blog post. So, you know, there\'s this perspective of like, I, I know you\'ve been, this flows into our conversation about feature product features and stuff you\'ve been exploring with the media library. I was like, okay, I need a place that I can just like get my images cropped with the size and, um, you know, DPI or whatever, uh, for these things.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I\'m like, this would [00:09:00] be cool to have. I actually use crop.express. I think yesterday for something, right. And I was like, the utility of it. Mm-hmm. still rings true for me. I just need this utility. But I was like, you know what I need, I just need to crop something real quick. I went to crop.express Yep.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And used the live, the online tool. Yep. Uh, for it. So I\'m curious your thoughts too about, okay, so when you\'re doing a WordPress website, you\'re, you\'re publishing, you\'re, you\'re creating content and stuff, and it brings back like just an exploration, I\'m not saying we do this, but like your thoughts on media library in the center of, okay.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>I\'ve created, I, I\'ve loaded my photo, this whole hassle of doing all this, finding photos, cropping photos, all that stuff. And. The utility of like being able to manipulate this and any, any updated thoughts. And maybe we just go straight into the product stuff you\'ve been thinking about.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> But yeah, I, that\'s, that\'s the [00:10:00] segue.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, cuz I personally also had a couple of images to crop and was like, okay, I can create a post. I can for the, for the sake of the exercise, I\'ll create a post, I\'ll crop the image and then I\'ll delete the post. And that cropped image is now in my media library. So to me the next, uh, short, short circuit sounds bad, but the next shortcut, there we go.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>That\'s the good version is I go directly to media library and can manipulate an image. Um, and so I started working on that, um, as kind of the next step cuz it\'s it without hearing, um, again, The having without having too many of these kinds of conversations. I\'m like, okay, well I\'m gonna continue to solve the problem that I have because again, this, you know, the assumption is presumption is that you and I have this, have a problem that a lot of other people have.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, [00:11:00] uh, so featured image, uh, and then the same functionality in ui, uh, on top of the media library, which is coming along pretty well. Um, and then, uh, I actually have classic editor installed. Um, something that I think is gonna come up, uh, pretty often in, in our conversations is that I am, uh, I, I do not go near the block editor.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, and, uh, for a number of reasons and that\'s its own conversation. But, and, and that isn\'t to say that we don\'t have plans, um, and even some code already for. A block that also allows you to crop images. Um, but, you know, for my own uses, I\'m gonna, IM implement this into the classic editor before I implement this into the block editor.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Unless people start telling me like, oh my God, we [00:12:00] need this in the block editor. Um, and again, not to say that that\'s not like next on the list or, you know, within the next few items, but, um, but anyway, so that\'s, you know, to me that\'s, I, I\'m with you. Um, and I think I had, I had also pinged you and, and earlier in the week and said to sort of start the conversation of like, what does, or maybe it was last week, but anyway, like, you know, what, what does the new website look like and how do we implement those same functional, that same functionality?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Because also, The plugin now has the circle option and crop.express. The website does not. Um, and so as I\'m getting more and more comfortable, essentially repeating the functionality and the ui, um, you know, we wanna decide on what that lead magnet crop.express as a wide open, pure web utility for cropping images [00:13:00] as, as lead magnet.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Like what does that look like? So,  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> yeah, I, utility of it is I love utility tools, you know, um, yeah. And the, the question I wrote down here, will, will, is I think we\'re trying to answer is what will enough people value to pay for. In, in the sustainable premium product type category. And again, just anchoring back to finding the past. And so it\'s like if you\'re creating content online, um, professionally, you, you probably have this utility somewhere like mm-hmm.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Camba or Photoshop or whatever that, you know, you affinity designer. And then anchoring to WordPress is content [00:14:00] producers, I think. Mm-hmm. generally speaking. Um, so, and then we\'ve got these two things. We\'ve almost got two potential use cases that you started this project through the online tool. Now we have a plugin and probably, I don\'t know, do you think we need to talk about those two things too?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>How we keep, uh, like do we keep parody with online tool? Tool and the plugin kind&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> of thing, or I think we start with it anyway. Um, and, and I think that that gives us the sooner the, so to me, yes, like the down the road is the pro version, what are people gonna pay for? Um, but if we are walking the steps of setting ourselves up for freemium, then we need, we just need users full stop, right?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:15:00] And it\'s like, wait, what can we, what\'s the first thing we can start talking about? And normally that\'s the plugin. And so I\'m in forums or I\'m, you know, in Facebook groups or whatever, and I\'m, I\'m mentioning it. Um, and again, I think we\'ll start to see a trickle of users. WordPress, just na natural discovering.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Discovery within the WordPress, um, plugin directory. But if, if we are happy with the UI that I\'ve knocked together, then moving that, setting that up, uh, on Crop Express and then, um, and putting a little banner that even links to the free plugin. Need this for WordPress, you know, click here. Um, again, we\'ve already got way beyond the WordPress world.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>We\'ve got, uh, you know, there\'s so many websites that just let you list that love to list free utility tools. Um, and so to me that\'s, that\'s [00:16:00] an, an easy way to. Have something to talk about even beyond, you know, again, my normal situation is I create a free version of a plugin and then I have to go try to talk, you know, show that to people.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And inevitably, lots of the people who see me plugging it are going, well, I don\'t use WordPress, so it\'s not even the beginning of a conversation. So here we\'ve got an extra advantage, you know, I think we could take advantage of that.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> Yeah, absolutely. Since it\'s already built, like we talked about last week, it\'s a, if anything, it\'s a great lead magnet.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Okay. So, I mean, I guess what I\'m picturing, you know, is, um, like we, we\'ve started sort of what I put on your to-do list last week is, you know, the, the envisioning of this over time. Um, but I guess I\'m picturing even in the short term, like a landing page and. And [00:17:00] then I can, and then again, I can integrate the, the cropping tool, utility tool, um, and keep chipping away at the plugin essentially.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, but that gives us lots to talk about, lots to promote. Um, and again, lots of, lots of different, hopefully different places to start collecting feedback because yes, we launched. It\'s fun. Um, but like you said, then there\'s that little like, okay, now what? And, and then, and then it\'s the feedback. It can be internal feedback, but we, we need some guidance on what we do next.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mm-hmm.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> swag. S always swag. Come on, . I mean, you created the new logo.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Oh, that\'s right. So yeah. On, you know, uh, as far as accountability goes, I think&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> you had more fun. Did the logo than the plugin, by the way?&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Oh, always, always. Yeah. No, it\'s, I, there was a [00:18:00] time, uh, that I fancied myself a designer and I missed that.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And once Design switched, and this is me dating myself, but once Design switched from Photoshop to, um, technically Illustrator, but I still actually use, I used the fla, I used Flash, and now I actually still use Animate, which is the, the modern version of, but I just like their vector designer. Easier, better.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, I also design a lot of logos now in Canva. Same thing, like I love the simplicity, I love the constraints of it. And so it\'s just you, you take away and take away and take away. And you saw me do that. Like I was sending you comps where it was not necessarily complicated, but there was a lot more lines.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then the moment where I was like, that\'s, it was when I deleted most of the lines and it was like, oh, the essence of what I\'ve been trying to accomplish is there. Um, but yeah, I, I, I love, I [00:19:00] mean the books behind me here, the books next to me are, uh, you know, are bowhouse, uh, graphic design, like, nice. I don\'t, I don\'t, I don\'t have code books next to me,  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Everything I have next to me is, is architecture or graphic design or, you know, some sort of&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> visual. Okay. So  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>this is what makes product stuff fun, um, and engaging. So I\'m anchoring back. Um,  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>we need, I, I think we, we\'ve talked about this a lot and it\'s like, we need someone to give us feedback. And so that\'s where it was talked to. Content journey.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Another thought here [00:20:00] is  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>asking agency owners mm-hmm. people that build sites and getting there, because I, I, we\'ve talked about this a lot. I, we think agency owners in the, in the WordPress ecosystem essentially, um, end up. This is my perspective, but I want to hear yours. Buying plugins, functionality, things like that for their client\'s websites, whether they use their key, their premium key, or whatever it is.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, and that\'s a whole separate issue. But I\'ve tended to see, you know, we want to do this, uh, we need this for, the client will buy it. Whether we pass it on the client, we just absorb it. You know, the gravity forms, ws any kind of form plugin, I bet you is on like 90% of client websites for the agency going, you need forms, you\'ve gotta have forms.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, and it seems to me it\'s like if we fit [00:21:00] this in the story agency owner, freelancer builder, person delivering a site for a client where I\'ve seen the most. Use cases just from my themes and different things, is like they\'re gonna use their website or it\'s a, like a content production agency like content journey or whatever else.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Or a blogger, professional blogger, creator using this to speed up workflow now. Mm-hmm. , how does that sit with you? Like, we\'ve kind of, I feel like we\'ve defined this case of like, if you\'re producing content on a regular basis, this could be a tool in your utility, in your workflow. How does that square, and what are your thoughts here about like, I like talking to agency owners because then they might, might be the number one customer binded on behalf of their clients so they don\'t have crappy, you know, huge 15 megabyte files on their site.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>I don\'t know what, what are your thoughts there? Because I, and, [00:22:00] and sometimes I go really slow on this and ask questions because I\'m trying to get it, when it gets clear in my mind what we see, it\'ll help. I think it really helps me personally to go here, you know? What are your thoughts on that?&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Yeah, I think, I think that that\'s fine.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>We, I just, I guess I\'m not clear on how we do that, right? Like we are, I, I guess what I\'m finding in, in me taking the leap forward in implementing this into the media library is that we\'re not, not quite, like we\'ve got the, I don\'t know, the cardboard version or something. Um, and so it\'s like, I don\'t, I don\'t actually anticipate.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>One of the things I also realized was if, uh, If you, if you have already have the perfect image, like one of the, okay, [00:23:00] so sorry I\'m a little all over the place. I didn\'t sleep well, so I\'m not as coherent as I\'d like to be, but bear with me. Um, if, sorry. One of the most difficult things in what we\'re trying to do, what anybody is trying to do product-wise is unless you have a brand new thing, um, you are, you\'re walking into or you\'re trying to get people to switch.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So like you said, people already have a process for editing, editing images, they\'re already in Canva. So how do we get them to. Take an afternoon, you know, and install the plugin and say, okay, for this next post, instead of using Canva, I\'m going to use this plugin. Um, and, and so that\'s, that\'s tricky, right?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Because we also only have one opportunity to get it right, right now. I mean, people will try again, at least a free version. Um, but I feel like [00:24:00] we\'re, we\'re, we\'re still a little shy of solving the problem enough so that people are gonna keep it installed. Like one of the things again that I realize that isn\'t there is if you already have the perfect image, we force you to crop it  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, and we also, uh, like we\'ve talked about, we don\'t have, uh, we\'re, you know, we\'ve, we\'ve put in a handful of Square 16, nine. Four three. Um, there isn\'t a way to customize that, and we\'re talking about charging for that down the road, which is fine. But again, right now, are there gonna be enough people that are coming in and going, you know, I only need one of these five and that\'s sufficient.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um mm-hmm. , I\'ll keep this installed. Um, and then again, for me it was like, oh, but I could go over to Media Library and upload any old [00:25:00] image. So it\'s like we, we\'ve, we, we have a proof of concept, which I think is great, but I, I also wonder that we\'re not a little premature in calling it a product yet. Right.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, or, or how do we, mm. How do we get people to install this and it might, and, and leave it installed or, you know, promise to come back in a month and try it again, or like, I don\'t think we\'re, we\'re not hurting ourselves by having it in the repo. It gives us something to talk about, gives something, you know, a place to link, all that kind of stuff.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, But now, I guess, you know, getting, going all the way back to one of your first questions, uh, or the first things that I talked about on this call was, um, where I\'m at is usually I, this is where I start scrambling to be like, oh, you know, now that I\'m public, oh crap. Like people are seeing that the wheels are on my go-kart or square and I need to quick chisel them to [00:26:00] be C circles or they\'re gonna make fun of me kind of thing.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, and so it\'s, you know, there there\'s a little bit of a, like, what, what do we, you know, what is the next thing that we have to do to get people to actually keep trying this, um, or stick with this or, or what have you.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> Okay. I wanna go back to a couple things. You said, this is a powerful statement. You said keep it installed, okay.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mm-hmm. , I love that because it centers us sneakers us down in, like, we\'re a utility workflow at Flow tool. And the question becomes how do we. Keep it installed. How do we, what do we do to keep it installed? And then we have this other fine line of like, there\'s a breaking point. We go, that\'s paid. This is free, that\'s paid, you know, particularly with the free right.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, so Hendrix has given us some interesting thing, and if you will, I want to explore this for a second because you\'re on the media library. So Hendrick [00:27:00] said media. We\'re talking to an agency owner right now. It\'s awesome. Thanks. Hendrick. Media management. The media library is crap, easily leads to the same images being uploaded multiple times, identifying problems, what we\'re doing.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, we\'re chasing that problem a little bit. Editing is another issue. This results in other stuff. For content, Leon is subtly necessary again. So if I talk about, it\'s interesting maybe your client thing. How, how do you, your, your newspapers and magazines that you work with, what\'s their flow? And this is the thing I need to just ask.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>From Content Journey two on my side, and I didn\'t do that. Apologies. Um, Hendricks is helping, but like, what\'s their content workflow? Do they, like I know Content Journey starts in Google Docs. Mm. And does a lot of their collaboration. Uh, then they put it in here and then there\'s image like from in Hendricks, he\'s like, media.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>We, we know this media library has needed something in [00:28:00] WordPress for a long time. So I think we stumbled into a really good problem here. Um, but like, what\'s the workflow? You know, like me, I go, I start writing headline, start into text. The last thing I do is the image, but I take it professionals have a different way to do that.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Like, I, I guess I do this semi my professionally, but like , you know, that\'s the&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> people. It\'s not your job title.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> Yeah. . Um, that\'s the people that use it as a workflow tool. And I think you, you mentioned something else, the switch. Mm-hmm. . The switch from co. I think it\'s really cool cuz we got cobble these together over here and then put it in a WordPress and published, but we\'re trying to say, we\'d like to make that better within WordPress.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>What I don\'t know for sure I\'m unsure of is how most professional content people do this. Mm-hmm. , you know, do they go [00:29:00] checklist beforehand? Image title, like, I know Content Journey has a whole SEO and content stuff and process they work through. Right. Thoughts on that?&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> About the media library? The, the, the clients I, I have do not use the client, the media library they are uploading, um, on one site.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>It\'s.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cu it\'s a custom size and a 16 nine, and then on the other site it\'s square and 16 nine. There\'s, I, I had to add essentially multiple featured images for each story. So it\'s like on the homepages and on the archive pages, we show squares, and then when you click through to see the individual post, you see the, the big 16 nine.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, but exactly as, and I\'m, I have the same question mark as you, like, this [00:30:00] is where they\'ve arrived. But these are, and these are professional writers, but they are not experienced WordPress people for the most part. So this is the flow that they\'ve settled in on. Um, but yes, content comes from Google Docs.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Same thing that I\'m, I\'ve seen almost everywhere that I\'ve worked where there\'s a lot of content. So I think that that\'s very, I think that\'s the most common situation. Um, and then, and images are last is also the thing that I have also seen with both, with the, the, the number of sites that I work with now and have worked with in the past, even at big, big agencies on, on sites bigger than, than what I work on now.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Images come last, they go and hunt for somebody goes and hunts for an image after the content is written. Um, and like I said, what I\'ve got, I mean, this was why I created [00:31:00] crop.express as a utility in the first place, was I, I said this, they can\'t just keep uploading. These are, these are writers, they\'re non-technical people.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so it\'s, there\'s the shame on them, shame on me situation where. I\'ve tried to teach them, or I, you know, and created documentation and stuff like that around proper crop image cropping and image compression and all that stuff. But at some point I have to say, okay, you know, I\'m, I\'m the technologist here.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Technology needs to do this for them. And so that\'s where, yeah, I, I think we\'re on the right path featured. I, and that\'s why when you initially suggested, let\'s start with featured image, I jumped, I was like, yes, that\'s it. Um, see,&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> you pointed that out to me though. I want you to know this. Hmm. For context, because you\'re in work doing [00:32:00] client work.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>I know what a featured image is. , you have clients using that? We use it at post status and I don\'t like it. Like mm-hmm. , the featured image the way that, or I haven\'t taken the time to take the theme, so like, blown out. Huge PI pictures down. I haven\'t taken the time to dive into it, but you\'re like, most every theme includes featured image functionality, so there\'s step one, you know?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah. I wanna zoom out for a second, Corey, if you, if you\'re okay with this, we\'ll get, we\'ll get back to the product, but this will help me, this discussion. Yeah, sure. Images in publishing, what\'s their purpose, what\'s their reason? What are the people trying to get out of them? The two things I stand out to me is something to hang your eyes on.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mm-hmm. . Something to set the tone of the content you\'re writing. That\'s one. Second to me is like SEO value. You know, put an image in here of. Someone [00:33:00] doing or showing the thing you\'re talking about. So there\'s a, there\'s an SEO angle to it. Those are my two tops. But can, I\'m, I\'m doing this on the mind map by the way, cuz I want us to get this story.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>This is the narrative to me. Sure. But like, if we zoom out, we just go like, what\'s the purpose of an&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> image? Yeah. I mean the, the, I\'ve got paper magazines behind me, um, which is what one of the main sites that I work on. And in a magazine you can\'t not have a picture. And so it, it translates to the web where, you know, we\'ve nerds like me go to Hacker News and there aren\'t images unless you click through to the story or read it.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>A lot of the time there, there isn\'t necessarily an image. Um, but I think for news sites or sites that are meant to emulate a magazine, I mean we call them blogs, but you know, which came first kind of thing. Um, , you need an image. And so with the [00:34:00] magazine that I work with, there\'s, there\'s sometimes there\'s photography, there\'s dedicated photography.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>They do a lot of fashion spreads. So that\'s, you know, original content. But there\'s also a lot of stories that they go to uns Unsplash or you know, stock Unlimited and they\'re like, we need a picture of a pencil because this is about the pencil factory. And that\'s a bad example. They\'d go take a picture of the pencil factory, but you know what I mean, like we need a picture of trees cuz this is about trees in the northwest and just broadly speaking and so, and then they crop that or whatever.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>But it\'s, it\'s that, that compelling image that that visual hook, like you said, um, I, I think there\'s, there\'s technically an s e o aspect of it, but for the most part I, I view it more as human cuz these stories don\'t need. Images. Um, but the layouts that, that they\'ve chosen, the [00:35:00] clients have chosen on very different sites, ultimately are very similar in that when you look at an archive page, the emphasis is on lots of compelling images because that\'s what makes humans want to click.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mm-hmm. .&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> So, uh, it, it capturing it and we\'re getting ethereal and I love that because then we\'ll have opinions that we come back down to and say, this sure takes away from this what an image is. Purpose is on a piece of content or on a website. So Hendrick said Emotionalize love that. I think he made up a word.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Provide context, draw interest context. Yeah, absolutely. So like I think about in this, um, and go with me here please, but I do a slide presentation. And I\'m doing presentation in front of a bunch of people and I want it to emotionalize, evoke emotion, um, set the mood, [00:36:00] tone, um, context and stuff. But it\'s always that, I think he said it in his last interest.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>It\'s drawing interest and like Yeah. Color to what you\'re doing. Now, there\'s a host of problems with that in the web. Cause you\'re talking about like Unsplash different things. It\'s like, I personally effing hate trying to hunt down an image. I\'ve done the painful work of trying to write and share and now I gotta go find an image.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Right. So we should note that problem. I mean, it\'s, it\'s an obvious one that we know about, but like, it\'s still a problem that factors into what that person\'s trying to get done.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Yep. And I picture down the, I, you know, I think it\'s, there, there is this, we keep talking about this workflow. Um, and what we, what we wanna do is shorten, there\'s, there\'s different ways to quantify all the different steps in a workflow, [00:37:00] uh, length of time, ease, you know, general knowledge, um, things that hold your interest.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And what we\'re talking about is when we talk about pain, right, is there\'s some steps that are absolutely required. So that\'s another quantifi quantifying element, whether it\'s a required step or not, but it\'s broadly speaking, we\'ve got req a required step of finding an inserting an image, um, that isn\'t fun.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And, uh, and we\'re just trying to shorten that. And so we\'re starting with again, Shortening, you know, people go and find images, bring them in. But then hopefully if they, once they\'ve done that work, inserting it is inserting it into the context of the site as a snap once they\'ve got our plugin set up. Um, and then down the road we can also look at integrations.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cuz it was like, [00:38:00] you came to me and you were like, crop.express as a website is great. How do we get this into WordPress? And I said, inserting this into WordPress is not a small lift, but I\'m halfway done with a, with a Chrome extension. So you, again, shortening the step of like, instead of loading a website, just click a button.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>and it\'ll crop it, you know, in a, in a Chrome extension. And then you and I got talking and it was like, okay, it\'s worth it to do, make the effort to, to make this a WordPress plugin. Um, but, you know, trying to shorten all those steps, uh, and, uh, and integrate with different, uh, you know, capture people where they already are kind of thing.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So it\'s, um, you know, if they\'re already in WordPress, then um, then they can do cropping there. If at some point we find that people are using the website, [00:39:00] I mean, what\'s, what\'s to keep us from monetizing the website at some point, right? Like we don\'t have to be a dedicated freemium WordPress plugin. Um, things like Chrome extensions, uh, not off the table, down the road.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then we also could look at, um, integrating with Unsplash, with whatever other, um, Where people are finding, getting their images, finding their images, that kind of thing. Um, and to me, I guess it\'s the, you said something a minute ago about, you know, what is the process and, and how do we know what the process is?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I guess to me, that\'s why I\'m starting to add our functionality in front of, it\'s like you have a storefront and you have lots of doors. And right now we\'ve put some sort of, we\'ve put our code in front of one door, which is the featured image door, but people might be walking [00:40:00] through the media library door, or they might be walking through the block editor door.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>It\'s like all the ways that people are, WordPress is here, I\'m here and Im, we\'re doing something with images. And so it\'s like, how do we catch people at each door at. Uh, interaction point of them images and WordPress, and so media library, uh, an image block, um, classic editor featured image, classic editor featured image, um, block editor, whatever I just said.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, you know, a at some point, a c f, you know their forms. Again, any, the idea to me is however we can, we can get in front of people or in between people and images into WordPress.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yep. So, so at [00:41:00] this point, I guess what I\'d say is we\'ve both said a lot of words. . Maybe maybe rephrase the question like what it, you know, I, I, I, I mean I say that to be funny, but we\'re talking about a lot of interesting things. Yeah. Some of it is ethereal. What is it? You\'re, what, what is the question precisely that you\'re trying to have us answer right now?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>I\'m zooming out&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> from our original thesis, uh, zooming out and trying to get a perspective, and I think you give me really good perspective of, you know, we\'re a part of this process. Our product is a part of a bigger process. Like, last time I looked it up, we, we said, make creative chores fun. This is a chore.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>It\'s like, I, I wrote this down too for us. I go, you know, my grandmother painted paintings and she was an artist and incredible artist and we\'ve got a lot of our work in our house. The [00:42:00] frame that she picked makes the painting. I was looking at the art itself and I go, it\'s beautiful the frame. Makes it, and it\'s almost like images are the frame of it, right?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mm-hmm. . So back down to utility for a second. I\'m just trying to think. I think this is where we\'re gonna come up with some bells to ring and some opinions of mm-hmm. images, image stuff in, in WordPress and anywhere. It kind of sucks. It\'s a, it\'s a hunt, it\'s a chore. It\'s all that stuff when you\'re just trying to get like powerful writing.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And it\'s, the thing most people don\'t do on their websites is do an image. Like I, I\'m on this one book all the time, I love it. No images and it\'s cool, but because she\'s done the pain of creating the content, now it\'s left to this final thing of the chore. But like, here\'s an opinion. We could say images should be your frame of your contents.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Like, you know, we\'re talking about emotionalized, wrong answers, provide context. So how do we do that Now, [00:43:00] back down. Thank you for exploring that with me a little bit. I\'d just like to get this bigger perspective cuz sometimes Corey, I\'ve been like, I wanna solve this one problem and I don\'t see the bigger picture zooming out.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now we can zoom back in too and just go like, in an ideal state, finding sizing, finding and sizing are two big design issues. Image, you know, in publishing.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> And Hendrick just brought up another good one, which I deal with my clients all the time, which is broadly speaking, image metadata. Mm. And so it\'s like, and it\'s a chore and.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Because they source images, uh, free images that, that need credit. Or again, they\'re, they\'re having bespoke fashion shoots done and they need to credit the photographer. Um, and all that kind of stuff. I saw, I just saw a plugin yesterday that is [00:44:00] integrating AI with WordPress images to write the alt text for you.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, which I thought was, I\'m like, that\'s, that\'s a no-brainer. Um, you know, that\'s a problem that\'s desperately n needed to be solved for a while as much because humans are terrible at , this kind of stuff. Yeah. Um, and, and again, non-technical, non s e o people, clients don\'t understand. They\'re like, it\'s a, it\'s a picture of a house in front of two trees, like.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Do I say cabin? Do I say house? Do I say trees? Do I say, you know, and it\'s like, even if the AI isn\'t a hundred percent right, I\'d rather it, it, it did something , um, lit literal rather than humans overinterpreting. Cuz some of them were like peaceful setting and you\'re like, no, that\'s not a, technically you\'re right, but that\'s a house with trees.[00:45:00]&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>It\'s not p Google doesn\'t understand what a peaceful setting is, but it\'ll, it\'ll say, it\'ll know that it\'s a picture of a house with trees and read the article that about a peaceful setting and then it will connect the dots. Obviously I\'m being presumptuous about how Google works, but you know, I think that there\'s, there\'s definitely times where there\'s too much human interaction and whatnot.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Anyway, I\'m, I\'m ranting, but I do think that part of the bigger problem as we\'re trying to define it here, finding images or sourcing images, images getting, um, inserted correctly. For the theme, for the site, for the design, um, and then metadata. So it\'s that whole last, um, you know, if it\'s a Gantt chart, it\'s the, the last chunk of that Gantt chart of, okay, my story is ready to go.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Oh crap, I need an image. And everything that, that involves finding the image, inserting the image, resizing the image, making sure all the metadata on the image is [00:46:00] correct, and then I can publish.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> Yep. Um, I think what this does for me too is help with marketing. Like when we talk about lead magnets is like, how do you source it?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>That\'s a easy blog, post lead magnet, something. Um, the other thing is a potential path for us, like we got one part of the thing that we\'ve kind of said. Crop scale, get the right size, um, downstream. We have another path though we could take is like taking the other problem, which is finding, sourcing, not saying we should do it, just saying it is hundred percent option.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yep. Finding sourcing, then. Correct. And it\'s like trying to put this piece pu puzzle together. Um,&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> okay. It\'s like the, there\'s a lot of, there\'s a lot of thinking, writing, talking now in the startup world about, sorry, I\'m rising slowly with my desk, um, [00:47:00] but about not jumping in and building products, which I\'m terrible at.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, but at. Talking to customers first, defining problems, defining, letting them define solutions, and then that\'s what you\'re supposed to build. I\'m too impatient. I\'m a developer. I\'m a hammer. Everything\'s a nail. Uh, it\'s a problem I have and I\'m, and I\'m fine with it. Um, but I do think that this helps us fill in some of those gaps that are necessary.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Right. And it\'s like you said, if we understand the problem, we don\'t have to solve all of them, but it, but the problem is what everybody wants to talk about. You know, you go to a meetup. I was on a, on a virtual WordPress meetup last night. Shout out to the New Hampshire, uh, WordPress meetup. That\'s just getting started again after a long hiatus, which is awesome.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, you know, but it, it inevitably turns into people [00:48:00] complaining together about similar problems. Oh, we all, all of my clients use, you know, such and such a page builder and it\'s a pain in the butt. And like that\'s how humans. Converse, you know, we share our pain and uh, and it helps us, makes us feel better and not alone.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And other people might have suggestions and yada yada. So it\'s like, even if we don\'t ever tackle the problem of sourcing images, it gives us plenty of blog posts to talk about our top 10 places for sourcing images that works really well with crop, you know, integrates nicely with Crop Express or whatever.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, and helps our customers, our users, broadly speaking with what we know to be a problem overall, even if our product doesn\'t necessarily solve it.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> So in your work with the media library, are you like in the media library going add new, pulls it up, and then Crop Express comes in? [00:49:00]&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Okay, so it\'s right now, yeah, it\'s, you know, there is a button, right? You\'re looking at all of your images and there\'s a button at the top that says add new. Just like on every edit screen there\'s an ad, new post, an add, new whatever.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so the, what I have currently, again, I\'m just proving concepts here, still is next to the add new I have, um, uploaded crop. So there\'s a duplicate button because again, I\'m starting to think that we need a way to bypass crop express so that if you want a featured image that isn\'t 16.9, we\'re not getting in your way.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Because that\'s how people, that\'s when people are like, screw this. I\'m gonna go uninstall this damn thing, cuz it, it\'s too opinionated or it\'s locking me into something. Um, and so we have to figure that out from a UI perspective or, or UX exp uh, perspective. But, but right now, yes, same, same exact thing.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Just like in, [00:50:00] um, the, the block editor featured image, it opens a modal crop, your image, and then that sets your featured image instead of uploading an image into the media library and then using the, the very clunky WordPress image crop, it opens a modal. You upload your image, you crop it easily and quickly, and then it gets injected into the media library.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So it\'s really the same flow. Um, again, just trying to kind of be. Insert ourselves in between so that you\'re doing the, the hard part quickly and easily before it, the image gets saved, which I also think is a huge feature. Yeah.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> And I mean if we do it where the media library is in it\'s now and train people on that workflow, like go there, um, potentially, cuz I was kind of thinking, and I\'m not, don\'t know the technical hurdles, [00:51:00] but back to the keep it installed, how do we keep it installed?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>We make it an indispensable utility tool. So I was kind of wondering like you got featured image box on the right side of the post Senator and that\'s cool. It\'s right there. It\'s very obvious. Upload, pick, upload, you know, and then crop. So we, we check that box, but I go, okay, back to the keep it installed, making a utility.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>What did, do we, there\'s one thought just gonna give these raw is that there\'s a left side of the WordPress nav, there\'s crop express menu item go in, they can start manipulating somehow. That\'s probably tied in with the media library, non-developer. Um, the other option is using media library as it is.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Third option I was thinking about is right below that feature tab is like, here\'s your, your handy utility tool [00:52:00] right at your fingertips when you\'re in the publishing process. Um, because downstream, like if we did any one of the, like the left, left menu or the right side of the Post-it, I\'m like, put the utility tool right at my fingertips.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mm-hmm. down down that one stream of like the finding. If we decide we want to maybe. to do this. At some point you\'re like, it\'s right there. You\'re, you\'ve done the hard work of writing your post now this tool over here, cause I know there\'s Gutenberg Block h Big Hill to climb on that. So I\'m like right here.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>I can, you know, it lays the foundation for saying find source potentially. Then step three or two is crop it and put it in. You know, we still have to figure out that gap between post editor, post block editor and here. But I go, I don\'t know. Those are the three things I\'ve been thinking about. But I want your, see what you think about that.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Yeah, I like that [00:53:00] idea. Like what jumps out at me is, is a, so we\'re talking about like, you\'re in the dashboard, you\'re not in the con you know, it\'s, it\'s what is, what is cont what is the context, right? So I\'m writing a post, I\'m building a page. Um, And so I\'m inserting images again, like we want, and that\'s where the block I think comes in if people are using the block editor.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, at some point, I think before we started recording our calls, we talked about, like, I use Beaver Builder, um, and so, and they allow, you know, custom modules and so having a, like, you know, when I\'m building a page or my clients are building a page, insert an image. It\'s not just any image. You\'ve, you\'ve gotten, uh, the, the media library picker, but with our cropper installed again.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, but anyway, the, the context of you go to media Library to upload and [00:54:00] manipulate images. I\'m sure some people do that. I have a, I don\'t understand the context of it, but I\'m sure some people. Upload images or, or think about images separately, and then they want to go find them when they\'re writing a blog post or something like that.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, to me, I, that searches WordPress searches terrible. And so trying to upload a whole bunch of images and then go find them out of the workflow, I can\'t even imagine, but I\'m sure people do it. Um, but all that to say, I like your idea of like, I just need to crop an image. I\'m, you know, maybe it\'s the fave icon or maybe there\'s some other context we\'re not thinking about yet, but it\'s like instead of there being a crop express admin menu item, it would say crop and image or, and so it\'s like, it might e and you\'re right, it might even be redundant or somewhat redundant to the media library [00:55:00] integration point, but it\'s like it saves you going to crop express.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>The website or it saves you having the Chrome extension installed or whatever it is. Um, and so I like that idea of like, again, it\'s, to me it\'s, we\'re, we\'re trying to sort of cast a net and so it\'s wherever we\'re catching people, wherever they\'re dealing with images. Um, and then I just think that, you know, as we, as we continue on our journey, interacting with people, hearing feedback and stuff like that, that it\'s all those points that are then going to be upgraded.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So it\'s like here\'s, you know, three or four different contexts where people upload and crop an image. And then if we decide to tackle metadata, okay, so then here, you know, here are the three or four points where people are uploading, cropping an image, adding metadata, or we\'re sucking in metadata or whatever, [00:56:00] again, before they hit publish.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So if we can, if we can start with. all those integration points, but I think it\'s, you know, we have to go where people are already integrating or are already interacting, um, rather than ex expecting them to come to us. And&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> without further validation, I go, I think I\'d want it just for my own use case in the right side bar there.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Just like to figure and go, okay, I can go here to find that piece. That drives me nuts, which is an image. But I\'m starting to think up here again a little bit and just go, what makes an ima if an image like in a magazine is there to evoke, uh, interest, emotions and all that, what\'s this place? And this is where we get opinionated potentially.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>It\'s like, what\'s this place in a blog post on a site? Um, and like, [00:57:00] I don\'t know about you, I just abandoned the whole thing because. Just as I, I guess I\'m a design snob, even though I can\'t do that very well, I\'m still a snob about it. Um, but like I, I thought about the post I wrote yesterday. What would I do?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>What would I do to evoke emotion and interest for the Post I did? You know? And, and that\'s, that\'s a problem I bet with a lot of sourcing. I know content Journey does a lot of, I mean, I think everything they do has featured images, if I\'m not mistaken. So I think we can get really opinionated about that for sure.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Especially with our magazine. Newspaper background is like, it\'s about to set the tone, the flavor of what you\'re trying to get across, what\'s that intent? Um, and then we just come back down to the process of like, when you\'re doing that, how does this process work? I love, that\'s what I. To get more feedback on is [00:58:00] how people do that, because they probably go, you\'re doing it all wrong core, you\'re doing it at the back end.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>You should do it at the front end. I\'m like, okay,&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> tell me more. That\'s true, right? Yeah. And I mean, it\'s all I can say is you and I, and pretty much everybody I\'ve interacted with are,  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>I don\'t wanna say not professionals, but we, we all share the same problem. We\'ve all arrived at the same situation where we\'re, we\'re developing written content. And the image is not necessarily an afterthought, but it\'s the last step of what\'s being handled. Uh, it would, it would be fascinating to me to, to find out that there is some, Doesn\'t New York Times use WordPress or I, they, they\'ve abandoned it and come back [00:59:00] again and, and one of the other New York Post I think does too.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, and I, they left and came back, or white, white House or whatever. It\'s like to me that those, that\'s the epitome of . The, the WordPress workflow, right? WordPress publishing workflow is if you are, uh, the New York Times or similar and you\'re using WordPress, and so it\'s like, call up the president and find out if he\'s looking for an image before he writes his blog posts.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Obviously a joke. He doesn\'t write his own blog post, but that would be fascinating. But I bet we find that this is universal or, or damn near, you know, 80 20. Um, and so yeah, how. we\'re starting with a very small problem that we\'re solving. Where it goes from here would be fascinating. [01:00:00] I what what comes to mind is like, doesn\'t Yost Pro let you put in some keywords and then it helps you rate your content based on those keywords or, or you know, it looks at search results or keyword points, you know, and how you\'re gonna rate for those keywords kind of thing.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Like, so I start to,&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> yeah, I love that. Imagine some AI thing going down and going, here\'s a couple of images we either found or created, um, on the site that flash him up a bit. I\'m so funny about my content though, and I just, I\'m trying to unearth a bigger problem here that could really lead a roadmap about is there\'s a.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Seems like there\'s a problem. It\'s wonky. The workflow to, to frame evoke interest through images in your content. [01:01:00] Like when you said Element, uh, beaver Builder, and I put Elementor down to you, I\'m like, oh, that\'s right there in that workflow. Great business integration to do. I just talked to Robbie yesterday, by the way, so we could, we could follow up with Robbie on this and he might be a source of really good information.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I\'ll write down, follow up with Robbie&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> again. Yeah. Like what, what does the Beaver Builder team know about how people use their tool? Yeah. Are they, because&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> images are, oftentimes they\'re lame cuz they\'re being pulled from stock. We feel like we need \'em and they just, you know, they\'re obvious stock images, you know?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah. Which&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> is, we\'re all used the same ones. .&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> Mm-hmm. . Yep. Which is interesting to me from an AI perspective of like, do something that actually more one off matches the content [01:02:00] and the, and emotions and outcomes you\'re trying to evoke.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Yeah. I think we\'re there like, I mean all I\'m seeing for the most part is people on Facebook plugging in some of their images and seeing, you know, here\'s me as Hercules or whatever.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, but it\'s the image generation or that, you know, the, here\'s a picture of me in the style of da Vinci, or, you know, Monet or whatever, but I, I, there\'ve gotta be people already using AI to generate images. You know, here is an article about X, Y, Z, generate an image, and then that way I don\'t have to pay royalties, I don\'t have to do any searching, you know, if the image is good enough and compelling enough.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, which is, I mean, also very subjective, like you said, yourself, you\'re picky about your content. So, you know, would AI generated images be enough? I don\'t know. Um, I\'ve got a buddy who runs all of his [01:03:00] images of himself. He\'s a dj and so he has his marketing site and he runs all of his images through like an in Instagram filter that\'s one specific filter.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So all of his images look consistent and stylized. And so, you know, the image source is easy for him. It\'s him DJing. Um, but the, the manipulation of the image. It takes a little bit of time, but it, that\'s what makes all of the images of him look cool and different, you know, hip and with it cuz he is a, a dj.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, you know, rather than just pictures of like, I mean, I, I DJ here in my office, the pictures don\'t look like anything . I may as well be working. Um, yeah. So yeah, there\'s lots of, it\'s, it\'s a big interesting step, uh, of the way we present ourselves [01:04:00] online. And some of it\'s painful, but I also don\'t, I don\'t, I don\'t know yet whether.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>like there\'s lots of potential ways to integrate ai. I also think it\'s early days of mm-hmm. , like the norms haven\'t been worked out on, on how, how we can use it and how we want to use it. Frankly, like, you know, there\'s for, for everybody who\'s excited for every, everybody who\'s, every person who\'s excited about ai.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>I feel like there\'s also a person who\'s very apprehensive about like, do I, you know, if every blog post needs an image and so we\'re, but we\'re too lazy to go find the perfect image, then I\'m gonna press a button. AI\'s gonna do its best, and then I\'m just gonna throw that up there because my blog post, somebody told me I have to have an image, but I don\'t really care if that image is, is honestly the best one.[01:05:00]&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>are we contributing to, you know, or AI writing? I mean, it\'s the same argument. It\'s like if, if half the blog posts now are gonna just be written by ai, is it, is it worth it? Are we just continuing to pollute the web with bad writing? You know, we\'re saying the same thing over and over again. So it\'s, all of this stuff I think is really interesting to start writing about or talking about.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, for me, I, I still think some of the dust needs to settle, um, before we actually look at integrating this stuff. Unless, unless some obvious winner jumps out at us. Yeah, I like&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> it in view of here\'s that conversation going. It\'s gonna only accelerate. And then how do we position crop express where there\'s a convergence point at some point.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, and I think we\'ve identified it\'s the finding sourcing part. All that back, back to here. Cause I wanna make sure I tie back down to ground earth cuz I [01:06:00] don\'t always do this. I get thinking about this going, this is cool, this is something to chase. This is some validation for me of like interest. Um, but it, uh, then I go practical point is like having a utility tool to do my, it was just, so, like Patrick Garman, one of our agency owner members posted like his year end wrap up basically.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And you know, looking through the post, I could have read it and imagined he was on an RV trip with his wife and they got to do all these things, but he posted some pictures along the way, you know? Mm-hmm. and, and that was the ideal use. Like seeing one of his picture RV two chairs and looking off, I was like, well that captured the moment right there.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now he sourced those personally from his own camera and media library. Um, I\'m like, if you\'re doing that, You know, images come in from the iPhone, huge not right format. All this stuff, [01:07:00] being able to just go through my media library. You\'re having the problem of like taking off your phone over to your desktop probably.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Then you\'re trying to upload it up there. That\'s just a cluster by the way. Just feels like a cluster. But you\'re like, okay, he\'s done all that hunting, searching, finding. Now he comes in, he doesn\'t wanna go to another tool, he is already done all, you know, potentially Dropbox it over. That\'s how I do it anyway.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Or, or air dropped it over. Uh, and it seems like when you\'re in there creating the tools should be right there at your right side. That, that\'s where I\'m leaning on these three things we\'ve been talking about. Like media, library, carbon Express thing, and right here where I need it. Mm-hmm. , I don\'t know if it\'s the right, but it tend to be gravitating toward if we\'re gonna make this into a utility suite, um, eventually.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yep. Or want the possibility of it. It seems like that is a good way, is is a good thought, but technically I don\'t know what the hurdles are. Um, you know, the already the post thing is just [01:08:00] like overwhelming to me anyway, but this would be one I\'d want prominent if I\'m gonna be using images.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Yeah. And, and I mean, what jumps in jumps in my, to my mind is again, down the road, it\'s like we could start moving upstream and it\'s like somehow you are doing, I mean, we\'re just having fun brainstorming here at the moment, but it\'s like, be the.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>I, I, I, it used to be delicious. That went out of business. Now I use Pinboard, but it\'s like the, you know, the bookmark keeper. So it\'s like, imagine if like we, we could extend beyond WordPress or beyond, it\'s like you\'re out browsing the web or you\'re on your phone or anywhere that you\'re just kind of like, you\'re collecting, you\'re collecting, you\'re, these are all the potential images.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, and somehow they all get channeled into like, you wouldn\'t really wanna do this because your media library would [01:09:00] fill up and most hosting companies limit your disc space, whatever. But if you\'re like, you know, I\'m writing a blog post about, you know, my, my RVing trip with my wife. It\'s like, I. Throw images off my phone, I might go and try to source some images from Unsplash and if all of them landed in my media library, uh, cropped correctly, sized correctly, stylized correctly, um, and then I could, and then it, they were there for me to choose from or something like that.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So it\'s like, you know, that\'s not, there\'s, there\'s a lot of things wrong with what I just described as an actual product, but, or problem to solve. But it\'s like, we can definitely start looking at again, if, if we get feedback that\'s upstream. Bless you. Um, upstream, you know, part of the problem of sourcing images or finding images or, you know, it\'s like, or even getting them off of our, our devices and into WordPress, if that\'s a pain, [01:10:00] you know, you\'re, If you\'re dropboxing it to your PC and then uploading it from your PC into your media library and then selecting it in your posts, then you know, what\'s the, the one click?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Like take it without signing into WordPress from your phone, you know, what\'s the quick share to your WordPress install little utility plugin or something like that. I use a, um, an app on my iPhone called Flight that is free, and it\'s basically for emailing anything to myself. Um, but it uses the share, so it\'s like I\'m browsing.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Any website or I\'m in Amazon or whatever and I hit the little share icon and where it gives me the option to airdrop or it gives me the option to post it to Messenger so I can send it to my wife or whatever. Um, there\'s a, a flight option and it opens up a little icon. I hit [01:11:00] post and it sends me an email with a link to whatever I\'m looking at, cuz I\'m in my inbox all day.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And that\'s kind of my ends up being my to-do list. And so in theory, you know, again, if we find that this is a huge pain point, there\'s a, I\'m looking through images on my phone. I click share, I click the, the send this to my WordPress install and it\'s preconfigured to crop 16 nine, then it just lands in my, my media library already ready to go.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>You know, these are problems we can solve technically, once we\'ve defined that there\'s enough people that want that kind of solution.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> right now you\'re, you\'re working on the media library thing, um, d but do you like this right sidebar thing? What\'s your thoughts on having it? Do [01:12:00] you crop express you the tool, whatever next version, thoughts or whatever? I\'m trying to think through, uh, product guidance and give you enough.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Sure. I mean, I think to me the,  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>right now, the problems that I quote, unquote know we have because I have them and, and I want, if nothing else, I want you to be using this. I want my clients to be using this. I want, um, content journey to be using this is, um, featured image. Media library, uh, block editor, block, classic editor featured image.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Those are the four to me, the four known integration points of WordPress and images. And then, and then that way anybody who stall installs this plugin is [01:13:00] going to interact. I mean, if, and Beaver Builder aside, or these other scenarios aside, you know, there\'s, there\'s a very long tail of integration points, but the four primary integration points are covered at that point.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And that\'s, that to me is the bay, the, the bare minimum of if anybody installs this plugin, they\'re guaranteed to interact with our plugin and then we can start seeing if it works for people. Yeah.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> The thing I wanna do on my own is, um, chase this. More metaconcept of like purpose of the image and then just look around and see, you know, where it\'s like images, the opinion I um, thesis of happiness images should add value, not subtract or be a distr distraction.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>How does that get done? How do people source it? You know? Mm-hmm. , how do we get that thing? There is a SEO value, you know, [01:14:00] from a good image, um, in that, and I, I want to chase that a little bit cause I think it\'s gonna help us, you know, downstream cuz like if we, okay. If we do the thing you were just saying, get all the integration points, the, the basis covered.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah. That\'s the free tool. Mm-hmm. to me. And then it\'s like, you want more and better. And this is where we could explore downstream on the paid side is creation, sourcing, finding part of that. And I, I really like that because the free of those, like, here\'s those points you\'re gonna have and we\'re gonna be utility, we\'re gonna help make it easier, this problem easier, you know?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, and then what it saves us is some of this bigger picture stuff for pro and paid. Like you really want to get serious about it, about doing this better. [01:15:00] This workflow, this outcome you\'re getting. Here\'s&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> paid. Yep. There\'s, there\'s certain WordPress plugins. Because I deal with, because I build web apps, um, and or because I control what my clients see when they sign in.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>I install user switching, uh, in, on many, many sites. I install duplicate pages. Like these are no-brainer, low lift, low impact. High value. You know, they add a button that frankly should exist in WordPress. And I think that\'s kind of what we\'re talking about here is like, yes, WordPress has cropping, but it\'s dire.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so we are adding simple, basic functionality that arguably should be there or should be upgraded at this point. But where we take that sky\'s the limit. Yeah. But if we can get, if we get to the point, I like that we keep talking about utility, [01:16:00] essentially is like if, if we are the sponge, the, uh, the coat rack, the, you know, the basic thing that every house has to have, um, you know, then, then we\'re just gonna watch installs happen.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mm-hmm. , um, you know, that\'s the dream, right? That hosting companies start recommending us because it\'s just, It\'s gonna save them support tickets. That\'s the dream. Mm-hmm. . And then past that, all this thinking that we\'re doing defines the the business.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> Okay. Take this for a second. I just wanna quickly sidebar on something.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>You hit another value add. So if for utility is, you know, making cropping easier, that\'s our been our thesis. Um, you just put a use case. We\'ve talked about beaver builder hosting companies. So I go, what\'s a compelling thing? It\'s okay. [01:17:00] Huge images don\'t help anybody on the web. You know, h ginormous, it takes a dis space.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>It\'s, you know, bandwidth. It\'s all those things that\'s compelling. Mm-hmm. . So then I go, this is just over here. An idea for us, this is like if, if we, if we take that angle and make this like the rockstar utility and that\'s our base. To showcase. Okay, well you wanna go more? Here it is. Okay. Why would he host recommended it?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>It\'s like, well, maybe there\'s a tool out here that does this, but like when you put an image, it\'s like, hey, fyi, you\'re think maybe there\'s a module or in the free at some point it\'s like, by the way, this is 1000 million pixels wide, big disk size, it\'s not the right, like some of that\'s in in WordPress already, right?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mm-hmm. True. So true, true. Getting some of those details [01:18:00] to prevent, like it\'s kind of a, for the hosts, kinda like a prevention, by the way, this is gonna help you and the tool right underneath it, A free tool. Is it gonna help you crop that to the right setting? There\'s a compelling value proposition.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mm-hmm. , it\'s like a, and this is 10 year old story, but my mom uses one of our themes and it\'s got rotating images and she\'s like, wow. 15 five megabyte files. That doesn\'t help anybody. Doesn\'t help the user. Right. Doesn\'t help their visitor, doesn\'t help the hosting company that checks a lot of boxes for a utility.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I almost wonder, it\'s like conceptually you\'ve uploaded an image to the media library and it\'s like, hey, this is effing huge size it. Yep. So, I don\'t know, I just want to see, cuz you know, technical, all the, the backend is like, conceptually speaking, you think [01:19:00] this is huge. You probably don\'t even need it up here, but before we put it up here, we can make it better.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yep. Right there. That\'s compelling. It\'s like, You know, people would recommend it and support, because this is a, I\'ve heard enough of this that I think it\'s probably an issue. It\'s like, it\'s not gonna help your bandwidth , it\'s only gonna, you know, most of these hosts have, uh, visitors&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> caps and, and disc space caps and Yeah.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> And they\'re solving it with CDNs and stuff on the other, you know, other side of it. You\'re like, what if you could be proactive about it and help people get better images?&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> Right. Well, and that\'s, I mean, like, that goes back too to the, you know, creating, creating images, helping users create images that work with the themes, the theme and the design overall.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>It\'s like if, if everywhere on your site you\'ve got. Square images, why are you up uploading 16, nine featured image? You know? So it\'s, um, you know, all part and parcel of, um, [01:20:00] the, the sort of cynical way of saying it is like protecting people from themselves. Um, but that\'s, that\'s like you said, on all fronts, the disk size, uh, or the image size, the space that it takes.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So there\'s bandwidth issues, um, you know, and making it look good the way humans view it. So, um, but yeah, I mean the, the upsell again, be by becoming a utility. Like there\'s a number of, um, hosting companies that recommend certain plugins that have white list, white lists of recommended plugins or incurred, you know, and some of them I don\'t, I don\'t know.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>I\'m not on enough hosts anymore to know, like, do they come that most of them have their own plug-in installed, but they don\'t necessarily like pre-install a bunch of plug-ins for you. But, um, you know, but again, all good marketing copy, um, good relationships to be [01:21:00] building and, and taking advantage of. And, um, you know, and we, and in, in, in the inverse right, is hosting companies that we recommend working with that are trying to solve this problem.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Again, kind of protect, protect people from themselves. If you\'re non-technical, these are things, you know, ideally you\'re not even having to think about. Well, and&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> give me another per person to put people to put on this. Um, asking about problems is hosting companies. Mm-hmm. , so probably hit up Jess from principal and some of my different contexts, but like from the utility value prop.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>The alone. This doesn\'t get us to revenue as fast, but it\'s like, get installed or get recommended. Huge. So the value prop, like if we can hit the value prop for the user, the end user, the agency, the hosting in a very simple, elegant way, just solve these little problems. Yeah. It\'s like we, we all become the [01:22:00] defacto, um, recommended tool.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Like Hendrick was saying, okay, it\'s it\'s forms, it\'s seo, it\'s this, it\'s that. You know, like, why not put it up there? Maybe we\'re not that tier, but we\'re second tier in that recommended of like making your images better for everybody. Mm-hmm. . So that\'s what made me think about as you\'re working on the media library stuff is simple ways to say, this is really big, you know, why don\'t you like, hey, two, two parts, just one is it\'s huge.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>You don\'t need it. You know, the file size is way too big. Way too big margin. The second I thought of is like, I didn\'t think about this until you said this, but themes have recommended default ratios, right? So it\'s like we can go back to Cadence, beaver, builder, elementary, whoever it is, and go like, can you give us those?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>What are those standard if we [01:23:00] can\'t find them? But I was even thinking like, I wish that information was in the theme that could be displayed in there. It\'s like, you need&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> four by three. Well, and there\'s, um, like you can install a c f. If you own an A C F license, you can install a c f, um, you know, preconfigured essentially.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So the client doesn\'t know that it\'s being used, but it\'s, it\'s integrated. Um, and so I\'m envisioning ways, um, of our functionality being integrated with constants being defined in the code. And so it\'s like you install the, uh, the golf course theme and it\'s, and it\'s, it\'s beautiful. If it has 16, nine images and so hard coded into the theme is anywhere you\'re uploading an image, again, media library featured images, Gutenberg block is, you know, [01:24:00] all you can, it, it, it throws up the cropper and says, you know, the theme you have installed has 16 nine defined, you know, will let you break that if you want to, but, , you know, you, you should probably do what they tell you and then your site will come out beautiful.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, and, and like you said too of like, um, I like starting that conversation. Like there\'s a, there\'s a chicken or egg, right? Like you can\'t warn, you can\'t tell people the image you\'re uploading is too big. You should install the, our plugin if you, because that\'s functionality we would build into our plugin, so they\'d already have to have it installed.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>But having the option, uh, or having it throw up a warning that\'s like, you know, our, this is going to get cropped to a recommended 1200 pixels. We noticed that it\'s, you\'ve uploaded one that\'s 10,000 pixels. Do you want, is there some compelling reason that [01:25:00] you want this bigger? Obviously, like we\'re, we\'re saying this conversationally, but.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>But I like that kind of thing. Like co you know, we\'re helping people, we\'re protecting people from themselves, but we\'re not also, we\'re also not gonna, like, like I said, right now, I think the, the product is too opinionated, um, that you can\'t get around the plugin, which isn\'t, you know, is gonna piss some people off.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, but we can, we can help people conversationally or functionally as a user.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> This is a problem I\'ve had forever, you know? Yeah. And as on the other side is you build a cool theme or product and people can make it as like, ugly as you want. You know? This seems like an idea to go, like we just need, I think we\'re talking about first Dominoes is we\'ve got hosting, we\'ve got some set of use cases, like your clients come to Journey, different things.[01:26:00]&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now we\'ve got theme providers. , that could be a domino for us because, you know, I just put down here Cadence and Kathy\'s aunt because she\'s doing, um, community marketing at Cadence and just going like, can you, can you give me a little bit of time? Tell me what the problems that users have with this and what you all have with this.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Like, seriously, we went to all this time and effort to make it a beautiful template and you effed it up, you know? Yeah. Um, and it\'s like  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>the banner there is help, you know, this tool with this integration points, the four, I wanna write those down by the way, cause I didn\'t get to write those down. But the four integration points, um, could be a way to get this adopted. Again, chick Egg, but like, cool. You know, is it interesting to you and I to make this a free utility that potentially builds a bigger snowball [01:27:00] down there?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>What\'s&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> your answer? Hey, if we get internet famous off of a free plugin, I\'m okay with that too. You know, like we, like we talked about on, in our first call, all of this is a bit of an experiment and, and I think we\'re by, by talking about it publicly, we\'re making it more of an experiment than it would be if we weren\'t.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>But we\'re both, we\'re both approaching it that way. We\'re not, we\'re not having a ha you know, meeting and having a hackathon and going, this has to make us a million dollars, uh, tomorrow. Yeah. And so there\'s, there\'s, and neither of us are, I, I think we\'d both love it to make us some money or to lead to something that makes us some money.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Uh, it becomes a, a, a revenue stream for us individually and or may it becomes a business, um, or whatever that looks like. Um, you know, [01:28:00] but we\'re open to non-obvious or not immediate apparent, immediately apparent. Benefits here. And so, you know, being the person behind a utility plugin that has millions of active installs, some good is gonna come from that and probably some revenue in some way is gonna come from that.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Even if crop Express becomes itself, becomes a lead magnet for some other plugin, we\'d, if we crop express, we, we end up creating Image Express that integrates with all of the free image sourcing and, and that\'s purely a paid product or something, you know, so, so that\'s kind of, I think to me, we\'re still there.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Do you&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> have image.express? Because if not, go by it. Please. , we\'re all by for you because I think we need that. Um,&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> okay. Everybody listening is scrambling right now to go see if that&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> hang. You\'ve got a five second delay, so see how fast you [01:29:00] type. Yeah. Okay. No kidding. . Takeaways? Takeaways and next steps. Um, I need to do my original to-do from last week, which is like, just have a conversation with a couple of these people on my list.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mm-hmm. , um, you\'re continuing to work on the integration points Media library is next. Is that right? Okay. Yeah. Anything else you need from me?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> I just wanna, sorry, ,&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> he\'s, he\'s getting domain guys. Um,&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> nope, it\'s taken.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Hey, I mean, I, I feel lucky that, and of course it\'s parked, um, I feel lucky that I got Crop Express and the other, the couple of other domains like that, that I have. Um, but, um, photo Express . But anyway, um, yeah, I, I feel like I continue to, my, my [01:30:00] to-dos are to continue to cover, cover those, those functional.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Feature the feature bases that we\'ve talked about, um, those integration points. And you, you start having conversations about, like, cuz I, to me, we, we know, well we\'re, we\'re again, we\'re still at truly laying the foundation. We\'re pouring the slab. Like this is a no-brainer. No matter what kind of house we build, we need the cement that we\'re gonna build off of.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, um, I have no hesitation about continuing to build at least the, the next few features that we\'re talking about. Okay.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> Awesome man. Okay, I got my marching orders. How the combos yours keep your, keep on your work with the integration media library points. Um, yep. I was cueing up a question in the agency on [01:31:00] your channel to say, how do you use your, how do your clients use images?  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>I\'ll wait until after my next meeting, which starts in just a minute. But thanks&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Corey Maass:</strong> brother. Yeah, great to talk to you again.&nbsp;  </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> I love doing philosophy and productivity  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>but seriously, this is context for what I used to formulate marketing messages and approach, and I think it\'s invaluable to product as we understand the problem, you know, and we\'re understanding, I should say. Mm-hmm. , it\'s always evolving and then we\'ll find the point. But I really like where we landed, which is for.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Pre plug in super uber utility, keep going to those low lift things that we can kind of keep adding value with some avatars that we added, which is hosting agencies end user kind of thing. And then, um, just get, keep the feedback loop going. Yep. All right, my friends. You good? Thanks for your time. All right.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Bye.</p>\n<p>This article was published at Post Status — the community for WordPress professionals.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:42:52 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"Cory Miller\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:22;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:92:\"Post Status: Interview With Product Lead Brandon Dove Of Pixel Jar — Post Status Draft 144\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:32:\"https://poststatus.com/?p=148081\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:99:\"https://poststatus.com/interview-with-product-lead-brandon-dove-of-pixel-jar-post-status-draft-144/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:33546:\"<div class=\"is-layout-flow wp-block-group eplus-wrapper has-theme-palette-2-color has-theme-palette-8-background-color has-text-color has-background\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container\"><div class=\"wp-block-post-excerpt\"><p class=\"wp-block-post-excerpt__excerpt\"><a href=\"https://twitter.com/brandondove\">Brandon Dove</a>, co-founder of <a href=\"https://twitter.com/pixel_jar\">Pixel Jar</a>, joins <a href=\"https://twitter.com/corymiller303\">Cory Miller</a> to discuss his WordPress plugin, <a href=\"https://twitter.com/adsanityplugin\">AdSanity Plugin</a>. They dive into the nuance of advertising, evaluate the benefits of free and paid plugins, and talk through the challenges and opportunities available to agencies that invest in product development while providing other services. </p></div>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-spacer eplus-wrapper\"></div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"yoast-reading-time__wrapper\"><span class=\"yoast-reading-time__icon\"></span><span class=\"yoast-reading-time__spacer\"></span><span class=\"yoast-reading-time__descriptive-text\">Estimated reading time:  </span><span class=\"yoast-reading-time__reading-time\">73</span><span class=\"yoast-reading-time__time-unit\"> minutes</span></p>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://poststatus.com/planet/feed/#h-transcript\">Transcript</a> ↓</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\">In this episode, <a href=\"https://twitter.com/corymiller303\">Cory Miller</a> talks with <a href=\"https://twitter.com/brandondove\">Brandon Dove</a> of <a href=\"https://twitter.com/pixel_jar\">Pixel Jar</a> about agency product development. They discuss how the <a href=\"https://twitter.com/adsanityplugin\">AdSanity Plugin</a> works and what lessons Brandon has learned about the relationship between agency operations and product development.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><strong>Top Takeaways:</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<ul type=\"video\" class=\"wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\">\n<li><strong>Recurring Product Revenue.</strong>While it can be challenging for an agency to balance custom service work with product development, having a product that generates recurring revenue can provide a cushion and diversify the overall business revenue. AdSanity is a successful example of this, and the team is working on dedicating more resources towards the product to even out development between the two sides of their business. However, it can be difficult to maintain free plugins without generating revenue, and it\'s important to consider how to incorporate them into the business model.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Value vs. Spam in Advertising.</strong> For many people, advertising has become a four-letter word, so there is a need to help customers become good advertisers rather than just spamming ads everywhere. It’s critical to empower your visitors by explaining the importance of creating a community around the site to allow for more meaningful conversations with visitors.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>The Point of Free Plugins. </strong>Building free plugins is more about passion and community engagement than being a lead generator. The main outcome has been connecting with people within the WordPress community, but those connections remember to come to you for solutions. So the increased exposure can lead to revenue in the long term.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"is-layout-constrained wp-block-group\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container\">\n<h3 id=\"GoDaddy-Pro\"><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f64f.png\" alt=\"🙏\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> Sponsor: <a href=\"https://poststat.us/godaddypro\">GoDaddy Pro</a></h3>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"is-layout-flex wp-container-16 wp-block-columns\">\n<div class=\"is-layout-flow wp-block-column\">\n<p>Manage your clients, websites, and tasks from a single dashboard with GoDaddy Pro. Perform security scans, backups, and remote updates to many sites on any host. Check up on site performance, monitor uptime and analytics, and then send reports to your clients. GoDaddy Pro is free — and designed to make your life better</p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"is-layout-flow wp-block-column\">\n<img width=\"169\" height=\"169\" src=\"https://cdn.poststatus.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/godaddy-logo-square-bw.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-85733\" />GoDaddy Pro\n</div>\n</div>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"eplus-wrapper\" id=\"h-mentioned-in-the-show\"><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f517.png\" alt=\"🔗\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> Mentioned in the show<strong>:</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://twitter.com/adsanityplugin\">Ad Sanity</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://webdevstudios.com/\">WebDev Studios</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/avatar-manager/\">Avatar Manager</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.admincolumns.com/\">Admin Columns</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://twitter.com/wordcampnyc?lang=en\">WordCamp New York</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"eplus-wrapper\" id=\"h-you-can-follow-post-status-and-our-guests-on-twitter\"><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f426.png\" alt=\"🐦\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> You can follow Post Status and our guests on Twitter:</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"eplus-wrapper\">\n<li><a href=\"https://twitter.com/brandondove\">Brandon Dove</a> (Co-Founder, <a href=\"https://twitter.com/pixel_jar\">Pixel Jar</a>)</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://twitter.com/corymiller303\">Cory Miller</a> (CEO, <a href=\"https://twitter.com/post_status\">Post Status</a>)</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://twitter.com/lemonadecode\">Olivia Bisset</a> (Intern, <a href=\"https://twitter.com/post_status\">Post Status</a>)</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"eplus-wrapper has-background\">The <strong>Post Status Draft</strong> podcast is geared toward WordPress professionals, with interviews, news, and deep analysis. <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f4dd.png\" alt=\"📝\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /><br /><br /><a href=\"https://poststatus.com/category/post-status-podcasts/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Browse our archives</a>, and don’t forget to subscribe via <a href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/post-status-draft-wordpress/id976403008\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">iTunes</a>, <a href=\"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS8ySkU5c2M4UA\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Google Podcasts</a>, <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/c/PostStatus\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">YouTube</a>, <a href=\"http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/krogsgard/post-status-draft-wordpress-podcast\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Stitcher</a>, <a href=\"https://wordpress-post-status-draft-podcast.simplecast.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Simplecast</a>, or <a href=\"https://feeds.simplecast.com/2JE9sc8P\">RSS</a>. <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f3a7.png\" alt=\"🎧\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /></p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"eplus-wrapper\" id=\"h-transcript\">Transcript</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> [00:00:00] Everybody welcome back to Post Status Draft. This is another interview in the series called Product People, and I\'m talking to my longtime friend, uh, an agency owner and product founder Brandon Dove. Today to talk about Ad Sanity, a WordPress plugin that helps you, um, helps site owners. Um, Well, I\'ll let you tell that in just a second, but , um, you\'ll be seeing ad ad sanity on posts very soon cuz I meant to mention this before we started recording.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It\'s something that we need. Need for the site. All right. And I\'m like, great longtime friend product, product member, um, has the key solution. Anyway. Um, Brandon, would you tell us a little bit for those of you that don\'t know you, and, and, uh, tell us a little bit about what you do, uh, your work in WordPress from both product and services side?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brandon Dove:</strong> Yeah, uh, thanks having me on by the way. And, um, yeah, so, uh, I run a, a company called Pixel Jar. [00:01:00] That, uh, we\'ve been doing WordPress stuff for a very long time. Um, we started our business in 2004 and, um, you know, just, uh, through our work with not only clients and, and services that we provide, um, have, have found sort of a, a niche in building plug-ins for our, our customers.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And, um, some of those are great one-time use things for our customers, but. , in other cases, they\'re, they\'re bigger, sort of, um, needs amongst the community. And so, uh, our product Ad Sani launched from just such a, uh, an instance where we had a, a customer who was, who had a wedding blog that was highly trafficked.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>They had been using another plugin that was just tanking their site. And so at the time, you know, we decided to build them a custom solution for advertising and it worked for them. Um, it kept their site up and, and kept making them [00:02:00] money. And so we talked to them about like releasing it to, to the broader community to see if people would be able to benefit in the same way.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And, um, they were agreeable to that. And, um, yeah, we, we put it out in the market.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> Well, I want to talk about that, that whole experience too, because I know a lot of people on the on agencies go, &#8220;Hey, what if we did this product?&#8221; And you\'ve done this unique organic experience that came out of. Um, your work, which I think is so cool for agencies to think about that there might be an opportunity to do a product.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I\'ve seen so many agencies like you, you know, this, uh, friends of ours that have done products, well, maybe they haven\'t monetized directly from them, but it\'s been a part of their portfolio and all that kind of stuff. So, um, how has that experience agency and then having this product. That you\'d like, you work on, I know you\'re passionate about it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I\'ve talked to you in the pa part about it, but tell me from that agency experience, what that journey has been like. [00:03:00]</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brandon Dove:</strong> Uh, yeah, it\'s, it\'s tricky for sure, right? Um, you know, our core services are, um, taking care of our customers, our clients who come to us and need more custom solutions, like that\'s our bread and butter.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, but you know, as agencies, it\'s, it\'s great to be able to. You know, sort of, um, get past the ebb and flow of work to have a, a baseline of income that\'s recurring revenue from a product kind of type of, uh, business. And so that\'s, that\'s sort of where, you know, we really focus on ad sanity to, to provide that for us is, is that that cushion to really start off our month every month with like, okay, we\'re gonna, we\'re gonna make this much money.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We can, you know, we can. Uh, count on that. And, um, so then it\'s like, uh, from an organizational standpoint, how do we focus time on this when we\'ve got clients who are saying, Hey, I, I need you to complete this work by this deadline, or whatever. You know, that that push and [00:04:00] pull of product development in that is, is sometimes really tricky.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, I\'ve talked to some product only houses that say it\'s just not possible to do well, um, between products and services. And in some days I definitely feel like that it\'s, it\'s really hard to, um, especially for a small team like ours, to, you know, please everybody all the time. And, um, so we\'ve, we\'ve set.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Over the years at Sandy Launch in 2011. So it\'s been around for a long time. Um, and so throughout that time we\'ve spent, um, you know, a lot of time on it in some instances and also in some instances, not a lot of time because client services had a ramped up. So we\'re, um, we\'re in the middle of trying some, some more dedicated resources towards the product to even out development, um, between the two different sides of our business.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And, um, it\'s a work in progress, right now ?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> So I appreciate that. I think hearing [00:05:00] that Will is gonna be help a lot of people as they\'re thinking through this. Cuz I think there\'s this perpetual, you know, pressure to say, do I have a product when you\'re doing client services? But then I talk to so many people that are very, very happy doing client work only.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah. Um, And then some people like me that have failed miserably at client work and go, well, it\'s product. So I think it\'s cool. It\'s been around very long time. Um, it makes money. Uh, and now it seems like what I hear too is it\'s an opportunity to even diversify your overall business\' revenue. Yep. And, um, I know you\'re, you\'re passionate about product, like this is something you\'ve poured into with that sanity in particular, just talking to you in the past.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, um, I think that\'s all, um, super cool to hear, hear, and then it has potential. Mm-hmm. . It could stay here and we\'d be happy with it, but it has more potential if we might put some in there. And I think that\'s a, that\'s a really nice [00:06:00] place to be in the product space. Like we said, there\'s plugins out there that, you know, agencies maintain for themselves that probably don\'t make, you know, money.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sure. Um, but are those portfolio pieces,</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brandon Dove:</strong> and I think that\'s one of, that\'s a, it can be a drag like, um, We\'ve put out free plug-ins before we ever put out paid plug-ins and supporting that as a service. Is really hard, right? Like if you have plug-ins that aren\'t making you money, but they\'re useful to the community, sometimes you put those out there and say, well, some people might be able to use this.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Those often get unsupported. They don\'t, they don\'t really ever change code because, you know, unless you have a very large team. Um, but, uh, It, it, it\'s hard because you\'re like, well, how do I, how do I put that into my business, uh, if I\'m not making money off of it, but I have customers or clients who are paying me.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So that, that, that is tricky. I think if you have a free plugin. But, um, ad sanity started really [00:07:00] small, um, really lightweight, really basic as far as ad plug-ins go, but over time we added functionality through add-ons and things like that, that made it more robust.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> Well, tell me about the plugin itself. Uh, I\'ve, I\'ve obviously used it, but tell us a little bit about where the product is today, and then I\'ll ask you where you\'re kind of go, what your thoughts and ideas are for the future for the plugin.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brandon Dove:</strong> Yeah, so the, at the core of Ad Sanity, it\'s just, it\'s a custom post type. So for developers out there or people who are very familiar with WordPress, it, it\'s, it utilizes a lot of WordPress core functionality, which is what we wanted, right? We didn\'t want to build independent systems that we\'re gonna add to WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We wanted to make sure that we tied in as closely as possible to the WordPress editing experience. So, Any user could pick it up and, and build with it. And so, um, out, out of the box, it\'s, you know, custom post type that supports a featured image. So if you have a relationship with a, an advertiser, you can take their, their ad assets, [00:08:00] dump \'em into a featured image, and we use a lot of the built-in WordPress, um, queries and things like that to keep things really, keep things really performant. And you know, we have different blocks, widgets, template tags, like all sorts of different WordPress implementations to be able to display those in different ways on your site.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Like that\'s, Outta the box. That\'s the very, very basic stuff. We also support, um, ad ad networks. So we have a, an area where you can dump in ad network code if you want to use an ad sense or some other, um, ad network, you can just pop that in there. Um, and over time we added also HTML five ads, which was really, um, a lot of our customers were asking for and even just plain text ads.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, so you have some customization of a look and feel of those things, but, um, that\'s sort of out of the box core functionality. Um, I think there\'s some other things I\'m probably glossing over, but, um, we, we created some additional add-ons to. [00:09:00] You know, enhance the functionality of the things that you might expect of expirations on impressions instead of just, um, like date-based ranges of like start and end dates.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, we have conditional advertising, so like, You can say, only show these ads on these categories. Um, but you have an ad group that has lots and lots of ads in it, so you can really slice and dice and display those, um, those ads where you want them, or based on user, user type or lots of different things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, we\'ve got a way for advertisers to get self-service reporting, so if you do build relationships through advertisers, they can log in. See all views, clicks, and click through, rate, all that stuff on their own. So you don\'t have to provide those to all your, your customer or your advertisers. Um, yeah, there\'s, there\'s probably like a, a few other I\'m missing, but I think those are like some of the popular ones, um, that are on top of my head.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> Yeah. The ability to put ads on your [00:10:00] WordPress site. Um, uh, this, its, uh, I can assume will always exist, but. You know, trying to monetize onto the site and it does it very freshly Well, I was trying to remember when I logged in, seeing all the down the add-ons there for a second to help to, to share some isol.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, well, okay, so that\'s where the plugin is now. And, and I wanna just talk a little bit before we talk about the future of what you\'re trying to do with the plugin. I know a high value from you, from me and friends as long as we have talking about this product in particular, that you have a, you threaded align with this because.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You know, value, personal values, business values too. And in the subject of advertising, it\'s always this tricky like, line. Yeah. To, uh, to, to, to walk. So tell me about that. I, I know cuz we\'ve talked about this subject is, you know, you, I go to this, I can\'t remember what the side is, but I\'m like, man, I\'ve got one answer by one inch square to actually.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>What the text is and everything else is [00:11:00] video. And I know from past like that\'s one of the things I know you always card against. How do you navigate that line with the product?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brandon Dove:</strong> I think like more and more lately, you know, advertising is sort of like, um, a four letter word almost. You know, people are like, I, I\'ve got an ad blocker on my, my browser because I don\'t wanna see 17,000 ads when I\'m just trying to read an article.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Right. And, and more big publishers are starting to go, okay, well, like, hold on a second. We were, we rely on that money. To, um, to be able to create this content. So I think what, what that\'s really led us to is how can we help all of our customers, our insanity customers, be good advertisers or good publishers, and not just spam.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ads everywhere, all over their site. Um, and so we\'ve done a lot of, um, writing on our site about, you know, best practices for advertising. Um, we actually have another ad-on, which is, um, [00:12:00] is an ad block detection because we want, we want our, to empower our publishers to start that conversation with their visitors, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We want them to be able to say, , I appreciate that you\'ve got an ad blocker. I\'ve got one too, or whatever, but here\'s why I have ads on my site. You know, I\'m a small team of, of content creators. We rely on these advertisements to pay our bills. You know, either could you turn off your, your ad blocker for our site, you know, like, like whitelist us or in some cases we\'ve been talking.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Creating a membership so that people become members to your site and you can disable using the conditional ads add-on. You can disable ads for users who are logged in or at a certain level. Um, so again, it creates, um, more of a community around your site. It allows you to, to connect with people who are visiting your site and actually have more meaningful conversations.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>With them, um, and, and give them the kind of content that they want. Um, and, and in addition, be able to [00:13:00] provide advertising that\'s relevant to those people. So not only are they not turned off by the advertising, they\'re actually more willing to like look into those, those advertisements because it\'s something they\'re you\'re already writing about or something that\'s related to your content.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> I, I love that for two reasons. One is because, um, giving somebody an option that. , um, you know, like developer and explaining why we\'re doing this. I mean, post status.com, we take advertising in the form of sponsorships. We want people to see those and say thank you. And those advertisers have like goals, objectives, they wanna meet a part of that. And so it\'s like balancing that. I know, I know this, so I love that. You\'re like, Hey, I know you don\'t like it. Here\'s a path to help support us. Mm-hmm. . And then the second. Um, the ability from just a business model standpoint to go, you don\'t like \'em, turn \'em off.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Like come into, it\'s a great introduction to membership and that\'s, you know, [00:14:00] particularly during Covid, Brandon, I\'m sure you saw this too, is like the rise in the. anecdotal data from friends around the sphere. Yeah. Is like membership sites were really hot core sites. L m s stuff was really hot and for good reason, people kinda left, has had a little bit more time and thought I\'ll do my pet project and stuff.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yep. And I think this is that line you, you kind of balance with any kind of membership is. Strong enough front facing content to attract people to the membership. And I love that you\'ve got a path for people to use, um, with, with those two scenarios. Mm-hmm. , hey, you don\'t like it? We don\'t either, but here\'s an opportunity and then a way to go.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I want to pay for the non-advertising version and to do that programmatically. I pr think it\'s pretty spectacular. Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>All right. What, what, what else did I miss on, on that part? I love that you mentioned that particular add-on. Is there anything else that came to mind before I start talking about [00:15:00] the future and what you\'re trying to do?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brandon Dove:</strong> I think one thing that I just, just, it\'s not specifically related to this, but one thing I, I did forget to mention when we were talking about agencies or like being an agency and having products is, um, what we have found in having ad sanity is there, there\'s always people who want customizations, right? Like we get that as an agency. People come in and they\'re like, Hey, we\'ve got these seven plugins. We need \'em to work better together. Or we have, you know, this one plugin that we just need to tweak another 10% to get exactly.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Have it exactly do what we want. And as a product developer, it, it gives you like core knowledge about this plugin. Like I know how to modify ad sanity. Any use case probably. And so we have, like, we\'ve had people come to us like looking for ad sanity and, and seeing it as a good platform, but they need another 10%, or in some cases they need an entire add-on built for it, um, to do what they want.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And, and that has been a huge revenue generator for, [00:16:00] for Pixel Jar. Um, and, and so like that, that, you know, Cross-selling opportunity. I think as far as an agency and a product space is, is actually really great.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> Well, we really didn\'t go deep into that, but I a hundred percent agree and I\'m not from the a agency side, but I go a project that can generate work or an name brain that just being out there and knowing that you might have a plugin that somebody might go, huh, it\'s a cool plug.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I wonder who, who does it. And it\'s this awesome agency. Could lead to a lot, a lot of work. And then I know there\'s companies in space and you got, you all might do this too, is companies approach you to build their integration plugin and continue to maintain it. And so you\'re like mm-hmm. . I, I think that\'s an excellent, I\'m glad you came back to that because an excellent way to build the marketing exposure and, uh, drive revenue to your business.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah. Even [00:17:00] some of the ones, like our friends over at WebDev Studios, I know they\'ve got custom post op ui and I think to myself, what a great calling card. Yeah. Because I think it\'s installed over a million times on the repo. And, um, but what a great calling card, you know, to say when you\'re talking to a client or to get, be out there in the mainstream.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, how have the free plugins you\'ve done in the past worked? Um, there, there\'s bound to be some net effect that\'s helped, but how has that experience gone from the free.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brandon Dove:</strong> Um, it\'s difficult, right? Like, um, I would say some of \'em are, um, you know, used on a couple thousand blogs or something like that. Like nothing to the extent of custom post type ui, um, which is a fantastic plugin.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We use that several times. Um, but, uh, but yeah, like, uh, for. It\'s, it\'s more of like the passion for the community that gets us to put those out. Um, the first, I think the first free plugin I [00:18:00] put out was because in 2009, There was a plug-in competition in New York, uh, word Camp New York, that, uh, it just, as a developer, it was a way for me to engage with that community.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Like I had never been to New York before. And, uh, because there was that plug-in competition where you were gonna be on stage and, and kind of talking about the plug-in you built, um, and you had to have a team that was, um, distributed. So you had to work with people, uh, that weren\'t just in your company or whatever.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, um, I got the, the opportunity to work with people that would\'ve never worked with otherwise. Uh, I flew out to New York to, to present, um, the plugin and, and I think that was like my favorite experience for building like a free plugin because, um, you know, being part of that WordPress community feeling, the collaboration was, was pretty awesome. I, I think for me it\'s more of a, it has to be more about the passion in, in that case than, you [00:19:00] know, having it be really like a, a lead generator in a lot of cases.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> Yes, absolutely. And I mean, I would think the better, it helps showcase your core expertise, the work you do, um, e even better.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, yeah, I like that. All right. Well, Let\'s talk about the future of added sanity and what you got planned and what you\'re thinking about, um, a little bit more in depth. So what\'s next for the, the product?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brandon Dove:</strong> Uh, that\'s a good question. Like I said, um, we are, uh, we\'re experimenting with dedicated resources for the, the product.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So while we continue to maintain it, build new features here and there, it\'s not as like, it, it\'s, we don\'t have a dedicated team to it. So, um, it, it, it can, sometimes development can come sometimes slow. So I think that\'s, that\'s part of our plans next year is, is really to dedicate resources to it. We, we are also as [00:20:00] many plugins are, um, sort of like finding our way with all of the new block editing stuff.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We, we addressed a lot of our core functionality with block editing. Um, we integrated with a couple page builders at the same time. But I mean, the, the way site editing is evolving, um, will probably. Further and deeper than we expect. And so we\'ve been following a lot of the, the development on, on site editing and Gutenberg and, and all of that stuff.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I think you know what it means for us, like I am, I\'m a backend more PHP focused developer. So what it means for us is really, you know, fully embracing more JavaScript life, um, and, and becoming, uh, You, you know, more in tune and more ingrained with what, with what WordPress is offering at its core.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Because that was our initial mantra is like being, [00:21:00] being very, um, focused on what WordPress offers out of the box and making it an easy to use experience. So I think like the, the big thing that we\'ve been focusing on is trying to plan, how do we want to integrate with, with the site editing experience in a better way and, um, , you know, how does that rework our entire user interface potentially.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, and also as a product developer who\'s been around for a long time, how do we not alienate customers that have been with us for years and years and years?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> So, Yeah, that we could do a whole public podcast series on how to balance like agency time and resources with the, with that product. Mm-hmm. , um, for sure.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And that equation, when does it make sense? But I was right in here, some of the reasons we\'ve talked about why an agency might consider doing a product and one, I was just thinking, I know you\'ll do this part of your client work, but the product is probably an excuse too [00:22:00] to. Dig in and really stay in touch with full side where the software itself is going.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah. Uh, in addition to like flexing your expertise muscle and all that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brandon Dove:</strong> And Beyond that, it\'s, it\'s like we\'re in charge. Right? A another benefit of an agency with a product is like all day you work servicing clients who have requests for you to do exactly what they say, but when you\'re a product owner, you get to decide what gets built.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Like you might have customers who are saying, Hey, we need this feature. But you ultimately get to decide like, do I wanna build that feature? Do I wanna support that feature? Is it good for the broader customer base that I have? Um, so there\'s some freedom in that as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> Yeah, like a change of pace too, you know.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mm-hmm. , um, like you said, I, I got change of pace when you said that. It\'s like, okay, we have to do what the client ultimately wants over here, potentially, but over here we get to like make our way and see, and that creative freedom freedom\'s gotta be nice. Yeah, definitely. Balance [00:23:00] with, okay. We still wanted to pay , you know, make money.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah. We don\'t want to just spend it on a research project.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brandon Dove:</strong> Yeah. That tracking is important too, right? Like, whatever time you\'re spending on it, you wanna make sure it\'s, it\'s effective. You know, just like as a developer, if you\'re building a new feature, you wanna make sure it\'s not impacting the performance of the plugin, things like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So you gotta, you gotta weigh those things for sure.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> Yeah. And just there, it just kind of ping my thing so you. hours you all spend as a company on the product. Yep. That\'s excellent. Because then you\'re able to make better informed decisions. Okay, we just spent 50 or 500 hours this quarter, year, whatever it is, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In making those decisions, having some of the data. That\'s awesome. Mm-hmm. . See, I like talking to the real agency pros, ,</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brandon Dove:</strong> You gotta know.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> Yep. That\'s true. All right, Brandon. Well thanks for, um, talking about all this. Is there anything that I missed that you want to. And talk about with the plugin and,</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brandon Dove:</strong> um, no, I think, I think [00:24:00] that\'s, that\'s most of it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You know, I, I think, you know, we\'re, we\'re not going anywhere. That\'s, that\'s, uh, um, you know, when development slows, sometimes people get like, is this plugin still active? Like, yeah, we\'re, we\'re still grinding on this and, and we don\'t anticipate it going anywhere. There\'s a lot of other advertising plugins out there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>and, um, you know, I still think that that, you know, I, I\'m personally biased, but I still think ours is the best. Mm-hmm. . Um, so we\'re, we\'re gonna continue to, to keep up with what, what WordPress is doing and make sure that it\'s, it\'s doing what we can for our customers to be successful.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> Cool. Well, I know you\'re in Post Status , but where can we find Ad Sandy and learn more about you and Pixel Jar ?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brandon Dove:</strong> Yeah, ad sanity plugin.com is the website. Um, and uh, from there you can get over to pixeljar.com as well. But, um, yeah, all the information\'s on ad sanity plugin.com. Our, our socials are, you know, burning cuz of Twitter. I don\'t know , uh, but uh, yeah, we\'re [00:25:00] on, we\'re on twitter at adsanityplugin.com (???) and Facebook as well, so wherever you still hang out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah. ,</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> we\'ll be there. Yeah, exactly. All right. Thanks Brandon for sharing about Ed Sandy in our Product People series at Post Status draft. We\'ll see you all next time. Thanks, Cory.</p>\n<p>This article was published at Post Status — the community for WordPress professionals.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 10 Mar 2023 03:44:24 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"Olivia Bisset\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:23;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:59:\"WPTavern: WordPress 6.2 RC 1 Released and Ready for Testing\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:30:\"https://wptavern.com/?p=142591\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:70:\"https://wptavern.com/wordpress-6-2-rc-1-released-and-ready-for-testing\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:1797:\"<p><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2023/03/wordpress-6-2-release-candidate-1/\">WordPress 6.2 RC 1</a> was released today, marking the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/handbook/glossary/#hard-freeze\">hard string freeze</a> and readiness for <a href=\"https://translate.wordpress.org/projects/wp/dev/\">translation</a> ahead of the official release on March 28. There are three weeks remaining for testing. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>WordPress contributors published the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/09/wordpress-6-2-field-guide/\">6.2 Field Guide</a>, which includes the dev notes &#8211; technical updates for many of the new features and changes included in this release. These include editor component updates, notes on new and expanded APIs, accessibility updates, and more. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Plugin and theme developers are advised to test their extensions for compatibility and update the <em>&#8220;Tested up to”</em>  version in their readme files to 6.2. (A separate <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/2023/02/07/help-test-wordpress-6-2/\">testing guide</a> is available for those who are testing the changes in this release.)</p>\n\n\n\n<p>A bug that was introduced in 6.2 Beta 1, which showed a <a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/48726\">white screen when using the browser&#8217;s back button inside the Site Editor</a>, was fixed earlier this week in the 6.2 Beta 5 release. This is a major issue that would likely affect millions of users, and it underscores the fact that testing at this phase is still important. Bugs can be reported via the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/support/forum/alphabeta/\">Alpha/Beta area</a> in the support forums or by filing a bug report <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/newticket\">on WordPress Trac</a>.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Thu, 09 Mar 2023 21:15:25 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"Sarah Gooding\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:24;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:53:\"WordPress.org blog: WordPress 6.2 Release Candidate 1\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=14619\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:69:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2023/03/wordpress-6-2-release-candidate-1/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:10123:\"<p>WordPress 6.2’s first release candidate (RC1) is here and ready for testing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Reaching this part of the release cycle is a key milestone. While we consider release candidates ready for final release, additional testing and use by the community can only make it better.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The official release of 6.2 is just three short weeks away on March 28. In open source, we say with <a href=\"https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/given_enough_eyeballs,_all_bugs_are_shallow\">many eyes, all bugs are shallow</a>, so we ask everyone across the WordPress ecosystem—theme and plugin developers, educators, agencies, and creators—<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/2023/02/07/help-test-wordpress-6-2/\">to jump in and help test</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>This version of the WordPress software is under development. </strong>Please do not install, run, or test this version of WordPress on production or mission-critical websites. Instead, it is recommended that you test RC1 on a test server and site.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You can test WordPress 6.2 RC1 in three ways:</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Option 1</strong>: Install and activate the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/wordpress-beta-tester/\">WordPress Beta Tester</a> plugin (select the “Bleeding edge” channel and “Beta/RC Only” stream).</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Option 2</strong>: Direct download the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/wordpress-6.2-RC1.zip\">RC1 version (zip)</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Option 3</strong>: Use the following WP-CLI command:</p>\n\n\n\n<pre class=\"wp-block-code\"><code class=\"\">wp core update --version=6.2-RC1</code></pre>\n\n\n\n<p><em>First-time tester? <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/handbook/get-setup-for-testing/\">Here&#8217;s a guide to getting started</a>.</em> </p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What’s in WordPress 6.2 RC1</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>This release includes over 900 enhancements and fixes and is the first major release of 2023.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/commits/wp/6.2\">Gutenberg commits on GitHub</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/query?status=accepted&status=closed&changetime=2023-02-21..2023-03-01&milestone=6.2&col=id&col=milestone&col=owner&col=type&col=priority&order=id\">Core Trac Tickets</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>WordPress 6.2 comes packed with enhancements to make everything you do smoother, faster and a little more inspired:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li>A refreshed Site Editor for easier template browsing</li>\n\n\n\n<li>A new sidebar experience in the Navigation block for simpler menu management</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Reorganized block settings with separate tabs for Settings and Styles</li>\n\n\n\n<li>New inserter design that lets you add Media—including Openverse and its more than 600-million-item catalog, plus your entire Media Library—and better categories</li>\n\n\n\n<li>More header and footer patterns for block themes</li>\n\n\n\n<li>A new Style Book that shows your entire site’s look and feel all in one place</li>\n\n\n\n<li>New controls to let you copy and paste block styles for faster, simpler design across your whole site</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Custom CSS you can add for those finishing touches, per block and globally</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Sticky positioning to keep important blocks fixed when scrolling</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Distraction Free mode for moments you want to focus on writing</li>\n\n\n\n<li>New options that let you import certain widgets from classic to block themes</li>\n\n\n\n<li>The removal of the Site Editor’s beta label—welcome to the next generation of WordPress</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Want to see some of these featured highlights in action? Check out the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2023/03/your-wordpress-6-2-preview/\">WordPress 6.2 Demo</a> recorded March 2, 2023.</em></p>\n\n\n\n<p>Do you crave a deep dive into tech specs? These recent posts cover a few of the latest technical updates. This is not an exhaustive list, but it should get you started:&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/07/patterns-api-expanded-to-include-template_types-property/\">Patterns API expanded to include template_types property</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wp.me/p2AvED-qNP\">Introduction of Block Inspector Tabs</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wp.me/p2AvED-qR8\">Shadows in Global Styles</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wp.me/p2AvED-qME\">Introducing the HTML API</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wp.me/p2AvED-qM4\">Miscellaneous Editor Changes</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wp.me/p2AvED-qNm\">Custom CSS for global styles and per block</a>&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wp.me/p2AvED-qLf\">Google Fonts are included locally in bundled themes</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/03/editor-components-updates-in-wordpress-6-2/\">Editor Components updates in WordPress 6.2</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wp.me/p2AvED-qPp\">Enhanced accessibility</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>And much, much more</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>These are also compiled into a <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/09/wordpress-6-2-field-guide/\">comprehensive WordPress 6.2 Field Guide</a>.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Let&#8217;s go on a bug hunt!</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Without your testing support, hitting important product milestones would be a much bigger challenge. It’s also a meaningful way to contribute to the project. If it’s your first time, or it’s been a while, <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/2023/02/07/help-test-wordpress-6-2/\">this detailed guide</a> is a great resource to lean on.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>From a global perspective, every time you test a pre-release version, you help secure the future of WordPress. How? By helping the community prove the software is stable, easy to use, and as bug-free as possible.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Want to know more about testing releases in general? You can follow along with the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/\">testing initiatives</a> that happen in Make Core. You can also join the <a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/messages/core-test/\">#core-test channel</a> on the <a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/\">Making WordPress Slack workspace</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you think you have run into an issue, please report it to the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/support/forum/alphabeta/\">Alpha/Beta area</a> in the support forums. If you are comfortable writing a reproducible bug report, you can <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/newticket\">file one on WordPress Trac</a>. You can also check your issue against a list of <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/tickets/major\">known bugs</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Interested in the details on the latest Gutenberg features? Find out what’s been included since WordPress 6.1 (the last major release of WordPress). You will find more details in these <em>What’s new in Gutenberg</em> posts for <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/02/10/whats-new-in-gutenberg-15-0-18-january-2/\">15.1</a>, <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/01/20/whats-new-in-gutenberg-15-0-18-january/\">15.0</a>, <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/01/04/whats-new-in-gutenberg-14-9-4-january/\">14.9</a>, <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2022/12/22/whats-new-in-gutenberg-14-8-21-december/\">14.8</a>, <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2022/12/09/whats-new-in-gutenberg-14-7-7-december/\">14.7</a>, <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2022/11/23/whats-new-in-gutenberg-14-6-23-november/\">14.6</a>, <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2022/11/09/whats-new-in-gutenberg-14-5-9-november/\">14.5</a>, <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2022/10/27/whats-new-in-gutenberg-14-4-26-october/\">14.4</a>, <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2022/10/13/whats-new-in-gutenberg-14-3-12-october/\">14.3</a>, and <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2022/09/30/whats-new-in-gutenberg-14-2-28-september/\">14.2</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">A special thanks to WordPress plugin and theme developers</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Do you build plugins and themes?&nbsp;Your products play a special role in helping WordPress do more things for more people across the world. In turn, more people in the WordPress Community mean a bigger, more robust open web.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Chances are, you have already been testing your latest versions against the WordPress 6.2 betas. With RC1, you will want to finalize your testing and update the “<em>Tested up to”</em> version in your plugin’s readme file to 6.2.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you find compatibility problems, please post detailed information to the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/support/forum/alphabeta/\">support forums</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Help translate WordPress</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Do you speak a language other than English? ¿Español? Français? Português? Русский? 日本? <a href=\"https://translate.wordpress.org/projects/wp/dev\">Help translate WordPress into more than 100 languages.</a> This release also marks the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/handbook/glossary/#hard-freeze\">hard string freeze</a> point of the 6.2 release cycle.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Hungry for even more?</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Want to know more about what went into the making of WordPress 6.2? Please check out the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/6-2/\">6.2 release cycle</a>, the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/\">Make WordPress Core blog</a>, or search for <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/tag/6-2/\">all things 6.2 related</a>.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Another haiku for 6.2—it’s tradition!&nbsp;</h2>\n\n\n\n<pre class=\"wp-block-verse\">Beta has left us<br />The code sings such happy songs<br />Six point two RC</pre>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Thank you to the following contributors for collaborating on this post: </em><a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/laurlittle/\"><em>@laurlittle</em></a><em> </em><a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/cbringmann/\"><em>@cbringmann</em></a><em>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/audrasjb/\">@audrasjb</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jpantani/\">@jpantani</a>. Haiku by @<a href=\"https://github.com/nomad-skateboarding-dev\">nomad-skateboarding-dev</a></em>.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Thu, 09 Mar 2023 17:39:19 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:8:\"marybaum\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:25;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:65:\"WPTavern: Lemmony: A Free WordPress Block Theme with 30+ Patterns\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:30:\"https://wptavern.com/?p=142506\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:74:\"https://wptavern.com/lemmony-a-free-wordpress-block-theme-with-30-patterns\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:3302:\"<p><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/themes/lemmony/\">Lemmony</a> is a new WordPress block theme designed by the team at <a href=\"https://shufflehound.com/\">Shufflehound</a>, a theme development company based in Europe with commercial  products on Themeforest. This is the team&#8217;s first block theme on WordPress.org and it is a strong debut.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Lemmony is a beautifully-designed multipurpose theme that would work well for businesses, agencies, and portfolio websites. It features the Plus Jakarta Sans font face for both headings and paragraph text, a geometric sans serif style, designed by Gumpita Rahayu from Tokotype.</p>\n\n\n\n<img />\n\n\n\n<p>The homepage includes bold, full-width immersive images offset with calls-to-action and blocks featuring a variety of different ways to present information. Scrolling the page reveals tasteful (and optional) animation that brings the content to life. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Lemmony packages more than 30 custom block patterns to help users design and build pages. These include multiple heroes with lists and calls-to-action, heroes with images and titles, partner logos, query with a sidebar, services grid, services with video, team members, and more &#8211; nearly every kind of pattern that a business website might require.</p>\n\n\n\n<img />\n\n\n\n<p>Lemmony also packages five full-page patterns for services, gallery, contact, about, and the front page, making it easy to simply drop the pattern in place for the most common pages found on a brochure website. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>This theme offers a solid user experience for those who are just getting started building their websites. After installing and activating Lemmony on a fresh site, it will look nearly exactly like the <a href=\"https://lemmony.shufflehound.com/\">live demo</a>. Everything on the front page is in place with placeholder content, including different menu items, just waiting for the user to add, remove, or edit the blocks. The user doesn&#8217;t have to start from scratch do any guesswork about where things go in the design. This is the kind of experience that all block themes should provide.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Lemmony comes with a companion plugin that includes additional customer blocks and other features, such as the custom icons seen in the demo. It will prompt the user after installing the theme to install the plugin as well to get more features. If the user is editing a page and inserts a pattern that includes icons, the theme will allow users to install the plugin directly from the editor. It&#8217;s a very smooth experience for including features that require an additional plugin. The plugin is optional and most of the designs seen in the demo work without it installed. </p>\n\n\n\n<img />\n\n\n\n<p>In the future, Lemmony&#8217;s creators plan to include more website templates, which would make it easier and faster to set up different kinds of sites. Overall, the theme feels snappy, has an unusually large variety of patterns, and is responsive and looks great on mobile. The installation experience is user-friendly and provides a good starting point for jumping into full-site editing. Check out the <a href=\"https://lemmony.shufflehound.com/\">live demo</a> and <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/themes/lemmony/\">download Lemmony for free</a> from the WordPress Themes Directory.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Thu, 09 Mar 2023 04:20:14 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"Sarah Gooding\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:26;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:74:\"Post Status: WordPress 6.2 RC1 • Dev Notes • Learning Path for WP Devs\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:32:\"https://poststatus.com/?p=148046\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:80:\"https://poststatus.com/wordpress-6-2-beta-5-dev-notes-learning-path-for-wp-devs/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:20970:\"<h2 id=\"h-this-week-at-wordpress-org-march-6-2023\">This Week at WordPress.org (March 6, 2023)</h2>\n\n\n<div class=\"has-background has-theme-palette-8-background-color wp-block-post-excerpt\"><p class=\"wp-block-post-excerpt__excerpt\">WordPress 6.2 Beta 5 is out now, and RC1 will ship on Thursday, March 9. We\'re just a few weeks away from the final release on March 28. Have you been able to start testing yet? Read the latest from the DevNotes in our WordPress 6.2 section. <br /><br />A proposed learning pathway for beginning WordPress developers has been proposed. Weigh in with your feedback.  </p></div>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kadence-infobox kt-info-box_94d1bd-77\"><div class=\"kt-blocks-info-box-link-wrap kt-blocks-info-box-media-align-left kt-info-halign-left\"><div class=\"kt-blocks-info-box-media-container\"><div class=\"kt-blocks-info-box-media kt-info-media-animate-none\"><div class=\"kadence-info-box-icon-container kt-info-icon-animate-none\"><div class=\"kadence-info-box-icon-inner-container\"><span class=\"kb-svg-icon-wrap kb-svg-icon-fe_video kt-info-svg-icon\"></span></div></div></div></div><div class=\"kt-infobox-textcontent\"><h2 class=\"kt-blocks-info-box-title\">WP 6.2 RC1 • Demo Replay • Beginning WP Dev Curriculum</h2><p class=\"kt-blocks-info-box-text\"><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f9ea.png\" alt=\"🧪\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2023/03/wordpress-6-2-release-candidate-1/\">WordPress 6.2 Release Candidate 1</a><br /><br /><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f4fa.png\" alt=\"📺\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2023/03/your-wordpress-6-2-preview/\">Your WordPress 6.2 Preview</a><br /><br /><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f64b-1f3fe.png\" alt=\"🙋🏾\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/2023/02/07/help-test-wordpress-6-2/\">Help Test WordPress 6.2</a><br /><br /><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f5fa.png\" alt=\"🗺\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/09/wordpress-6-2-field-guide/\">WordPress 6.2 Field Guide</a><br /><br /><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f469-1f3fb-200d-1f3eb.png\" alt=\"👩🏻‍🏫\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/training/2023/03/08/introduction-to-wordpress-development-a-proposed-learning-path/\">Introduction to WordPress Development: A proposed learning path</a></p></div></div></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kadence-spacer aligncenter kt-block-spacer-_b57166-6e\"><div class=\"kt-block-spacer kt-block-spacer-halign-center\"><hr class=\"kt-divider\" /></div></div>\n\n\n\n<h2 id=\"h-news\"><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news\">News</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2023/03/your-wordpress-6-2-preview/\">Your WordPress 6.2 Preview</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kadence-spacer aligncenter kt-block-spacer-_8f6276-eb\"><div class=\"kt-block-spacer kt-block-spacer-halign-center\"><hr class=\"kt-divider\" /></div></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"is-layout-flex wp-container-25 wp-block-columns\">\n<div class=\"is-layout-flow wp-block-column\">\n<h2 id=\"h-community\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community\">Community</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/2023/03/07/upcoming-wpdiversity-events-march-2023-2/\">Upcoming #WPDiversity Events: March 2023</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/2023/02/27/proposal-modify-the-events-and-news-widget-to-show-topic-based-meetups-worldwide/\">Proposal: Modify the Events and News widget to show topic-based meetups worldwide</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 id=\"h-core\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core\">Core</a> </h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/08/a-week-in-core-march-6-2023/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">A Week in Core – March 6, 2023</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/06/wordpress-6-2-rc1-postponed-additional-beta-5-added/\">WordPress 6.2 RC1 postponed, additional Beta 5 added</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 id=\"h-do-action\"><a href=\"https://doaction.org/\">do_action</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://doaction.org/event/ruralhackers/\">Rural Hackers Do_Action 2023 in Anceu Spain</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 id=\"h-wordpress-6-2\">WordPress 6.2</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2023/03/wordpress-6-2-release-candidate-1/\">WordPress 6.2 Release Candidate 1</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/2023/03/04/wordpress-6-2-ready-to-be-translated/\">WordPress 6.2 ready to be translated</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/09/wordpress-6-2-field-guide/\">WordPress 6.2 Field Guide</a>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/08/requests-library-upgraded-to-2-0-5-in-wordpress-6-2/\">Requests library upgraded to 2.0.5 in WordPress 6.2</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/07/patterns-api-expanded-to-include-template_types-property/\">Patterns API expanded to include template_types property</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/07/introduction-of-block-inspector-tabs/\">Introduction of Block Inspector Tabs</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/07/shadows-in-global-styles-with-wordpress-6-2/\">Shadows in Global Styles with WordPress 6.2</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/07/introducing-the-html-api-in-wordpress-6-2/\">Introducing the HTML API in WordPress 6.2</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/07/miscellaneous-editor-changes-in-wordpress-6-2/\">Miscellaneous Editor changes in WordPress 6.2</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/07/introducing-move_dir-in-wordpress-6-2/\">Introducing move_dir() in WordPress 6.2</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/07/sticky-position-block-support/\">Sticky position block support</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/07/upgrading-to-react-18-and-common-pitfalls-of-concurrent-mode/\">Upgrading to React 18 and common pitfalls of concurrent mode</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/06/add-new-prop-to-serversiderender-component/\">Add new prop to ServerSideRender component</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/06/google-fonts-are-included-locally-in-bundled-themes/\">Google Fonts are included locally in bundled themes</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/06/custom-css-for-global-styles-and-per-block/\">Custom CSS for global styles and per block</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/06/minimum-height-dimensions-block-support/\">Minimum height dimensions block support</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/03/editor-components-updates-in-wordpress-6-2/\">Editor Components updates in WordPress 6.2</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/03/i18n-improvements-in-6-2/\">I18N Improvements in 6.2</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/02/28/custom-settings-wordpress-6-2/\">Customize settings for any block in WordPress 6.2</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/02/19/style-book-preview-of-blocks-in-global-styles/\">Style Book preview of blocks in global styles</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2022/12/09/update-to-content-only-editing-filter-namespace/\">Update to content only editing filter namespace</a></li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/02/wordpress-6-2-accessibility-improvements/\">WordPress 6.2 Accessibility Improvements</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/02/28/wordpress-6-2-beta-4-postponed/\">WordPress 6.2 Beta 4 Postponed</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/02/21/wordpress-6-2-beta-3/\">WordPress 6.2 Beta 3</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/02/21/6-2-live-product-demo/\">6.2 Live Product Demo</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/02/04/phase-2-finale/\">Phase 2, Finale</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/02/03/hallway-hangout-performance-improvements-for-wordpress-6-2/\">Hallway Hangout: Performance Improvements for WordPress 6.2</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/02/06/roadmap-to-6-2/\">Roadmap to 6.2</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/01/18/bug-scrub-schedule-for-6-2/\">Bug Scrub Schedule for 6.2</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/01/11/early-bug-scrub-schedule-for-wp-6-2/\">Early bug scrub schedule for WP&nbsp;6.2</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/01/17/wordpress-6-2-planning-roundup/\">WordPress 6.2 Planning Roundup</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 id=\"h-meetings\">Meetings</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/08/dev-chat-agenda-march-8-2023/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Dev Chat Agenda, March 8, 2023</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/06/editor-chat-agenda-8-march-2023/\">Editor Chat Agenda: 8 March 2023</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 id=\"h-developer-blog\">Developer Blog</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2023/03/converting-your-shortcodes-to-blocks/\">Converting your shortcodes to blocks</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 id=\"h-docs\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/docs\">Docs</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/docs/2023/03/06/agenda-for-docs-team-bi-weekly-meeting-march-7-2023/\">Agenda for Docs Team bi-weekly meeting March 7, 2023</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/updates/2023/03/06/documentation-team-update-march-6-2023/\">Documentation Team Update – March 6, 2023</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 id=\"h-hosting\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/hosting\">Hosting</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/hosting/2023/03/07/hosting-team-meeting-agenda-2023-03-08/\">Hosting Team meeting agenda 2023-03-08</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 id=\"h-marketing\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/marketing\">Marketing</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/marketing/2023/03/01/notes-global-marketing-team-meeting-21-february-2023/\">Notes: Global Marketing Team meeting, 21 February 2023</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/marketing/2023/03/01/notes-global-marketing-team-meeting-14-february-2023/\">Notes: Global Marketing Team meeting, 14 February 2023</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 id=\"h-meta\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/meta\">Meta</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/meta/2023/03/08/agenda-biweekly-matrix-chat-thu-march-9-2023-10am-utc/\">Agenda: Biweekly Matrix Chat – Thu, March 9, 2023 (10AM UTC)</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 id=\"h-openverse\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/openverse\">Openverse</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/openverse/2023/03/08/priorities-meeting-recap-2023-03-08/\">Priorities Meeting Recap 2023-03-08</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/openverse/2023/03/07/community-meeting-recap-7-march-2023/\">Community Meeting Recap (7 March 2023)</a></li>\n</ul>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"is-layout-flow wp-block-column\">\n<h2 id=\"h-performance\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/performance/\">Performance</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/07/performance-chat-summary-07-march-2023/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Performance Chat Summary: 7 March 2023</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 id=\"h-polyglots\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots\">Polyglots</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/2023/03/08/agenda-weekly-polyglots-chat-march-8-2023-700-utc8/\">Agenda: Weekly Polyglots Chat – March. 8, 2023 (7:00 UTC)8</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/2023/03/06/updates-to-language-support-in-openverse/\">Updates to language support in Openverse</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/2023/03/04/wordpress-6-2-ready-to-be-translated/\">WordPress 6.2 ready to be translated</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 id=\"h-plugins\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/plugins\">Plugins</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/updates/2023/03/01/plugin-review-team-27-feb-2023/\"></a><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/updates/2023/03/07/plugin-review-team-status-6-march-23/\">Plugin Review Team Status: 6 March 23</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 id=\"h-project\">Project</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/project/2023/02/06/proposal-creating-a-wordpress-contributor-mentorship-program/\">Proposal: Creating a WordPress Contributor Mentorship Program</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/project/2023/01/27/discussion-ending-the-eternal-september/\">Discussion: Ending the Eternal September</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 id=\"h-support\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/support\">Support</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/support/2023/03/support-ticket-triage-session-march-22th-2023-at-1600-utc/\">Support ticket triage session – March 22th 2023 at 16:00 UTC</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/support/2023/03/agenda-for-march-9th-support-meeting-2/\">Agenda for March 9th Support Meeting</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 id=\"h-theme\">Theme</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/themes/2023/03/03/hallway-hangout-community-themes-initiative/\">Hallway Hangout: Community Themes Initiative</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/themes/2023/03/01/themes-team-meeting-notes-february-28-2023/\">Themes Team Meeting Notes –&nbsp;February 28, 2023</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/updates/2023/02/28/themes-team-update-february-28-2023/\">Themes team update February 28, 2023</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 id=\"h-test\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test\">Test</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/2023/02/21/hallway-hangout-lets-chat-about-using-replay-io-in-the-fse-outreach-program/\">Hallway Hangout: Let’s chat about using Replay.io in the FSE Outreach Program</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/2023/02/07/help-test-wordpress-6-2/\">Help Test WordPress 6.2</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/updates/2023/03/06/test-team-update-6-march-2023/\">Test Team Update: 6 March 2023</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 id=\"h-training\"><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/training\">Training</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/training/2023/03/08/introduction-to-wordpress-development-a-proposed-learning-path/\">Introduction to WordPress&nbsp;Development: A proposed learning path</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/training/2023/03/06/meeting-agenda-for-march-7th-2023/\">Meeting Agenda for March 7th, 2023</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/training/2023/03/03/recap-wordpress-6-2-beta-4-release-party-ride-along/\">Recap: WordPress 6.2 Beta 4 Release Party Ride Along</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/training/2023/03/03/recap-sensei-pro-lms-demo-for-learn-wordpress/\">Recap: Sensei Pro LMS Demo for Learn WordPress</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/training/2023/03/03/become-a-welcome-committee-member-today/\">Become a Welcome Committee member today!</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/training/2023/03/02/training-team-goals-for-2023/\">Training Team Goals for 2023</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 id=\"h-online-workshops\">Online Workshops</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/?meeting=how-to-create-a-website-on-mobile-part-1-2\">How to create a website on mobile (Part 1)</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/?meeting=caching-demystified-a-guide-for-the-non-techie\">Caching Demystified: A Guide for the Non-Techie</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/?meeting=watch-party-6-2-product-demo\">Watch Party: 6.2 Product Demo</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/?meeting=lets-code-preventing-csrf-security-vulnerabilities\">Let’s code: Preventing CSRF Security Vulnerabilities</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/?meeting=wp-dev-livestream-developing-wordpress-user-roles-and-capabilities\">WP dev livestream: Developing WordPress user roles and capabilities</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/?meeting=live-stream-bring-me-your-block-development-issues\">Live stream: Bring me your block development issues!</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/?meeting=live-stream-reviewing-developer-focused-features-in-gutenberg-15-3\">Live stream: Reviewing developer-focused features in Gutenberg 15.3</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/?meeting=live-stream-wrapping-up-the-openai-integrated-block-that-generates-images\">Live stream: Wrapping up the OpenAI integrated block that generates images</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/?meeting=organizing-diverse-inclusive-wordpress-events-amer-emea\">Organizing Diverse & Inclusive WordPress Events AMER/EMEA</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 id=\"h-tutorials\"><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/tutorials\">Tutorials</a></h3>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/tutorial/displaying-testimonials-on-your-website/\">Displaying testimonials on your website</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/tutorial/interacting-with-the-wordpress-rest-api/\">Interacting with the WordPress REST API</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 id=\"h-wptv\">WPTV</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.tv/category/year/2022/\">Latest WordPress TV videos</a></li>\n</ul>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n\n<h2 id=\"h-related-news\">Related News:</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://www.php.net/archive/2023.php#2023-02-14-2\">PHP 8.2.3 Released!</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.php.net/archive/2023.php#2023-02-14-3\">PHP 8.1.16 Released!</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://262.ecma-international.org/13.0/\">TC39</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://github.com/composer/composer/releases/tag/2.5.4\">Composer 2.5.4</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-theme-palette-7-background-color has-background\">Thanks for reading our WP dot .org roundup! Each week we are highlighting the news and discussions coming from the good folks making WordPress possible. If you or your company create products or services that use WordPress, you need to be engaged with them and their work. Be sure to share this resource with your product and project managers. <br /><br /><strong>Are you interested in giving back and contributing your time and skills to WordPress.org?</strong> <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f64f.png\" alt=\"🙏\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/support/article/contributing-to-wordpress/\">Start Here ›</a><br /><br /><strong>Get our weekly WordPress community news digest</strong> — Post Status\' <a href=\"https://poststatus.com/news/week-in-review/\">Week in Review</a> — covering the WP/Woo news plus significant writing and podcasts. It\'s also available in <a href=\"https://poststatus.com/newsletter\">our newsletter</a>. <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f48c.png\" alt=\"💌\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /></p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-media-text alignwide is-stacked-on-mobile has-background\"><a href=\"https://poststatus.com/\"><img src=\"https://cdn.poststatus.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/vertical-post-status-logo-250.png\" alt=\"Post Status\" class=\"wp-image-85823 size-full\" /></a><div class=\"wp-block-media-text__content\">\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left has-normal-font-size\" id=\"h-get-ready-for-remote-work\">You — and <a href=\"https://poststatus.com/#Agency\">your whole team</a> can <a href=\"https://poststatus.com/#choose-membership\">Join Post Status</a> too!</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left has-small-font-size\"><strong>Build your network. Learn with others. Find your next job — or your next hire.</strong> Read the <strong>Post Status</strong> <a href=\"https://poststatus.com/newsletter/\">newsletter</a>. <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/2709.png\" alt=\"✉\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> Listen to <a href=\"https://poststatus.com/podcasts/\">podcasts</a>. <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f399.png\" alt=\"🎙\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> Follow <a href=\"https://twitter.com/post_status/\">@Post_Status</a> <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f426.png\" alt=\"🐦\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> and <a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/company/post-status-llc/\">LinkedIn</a>. <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f4bc.png\" alt=\"💼\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /></p>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n<p>This article was published at Post Status — the community for WordPress professionals.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Thu, 09 Mar 2023 01:25:37 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:18:\"Courtney Robertson\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:27;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:87:\"WPTavern: Jetpack 11.9 Adds Sharing Button for Mastodon, Updates Stats Dashboard Design\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:30:\"https://wptavern.com/?p=142514\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:97:\"https://wptavern.com/jetpack-11-9-adds-sharing-button-for-mastodon-updates-stats-dashboard-design\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:2392:\"<p><a href=\"https://jetpack.com/blog/jetpack-11-9-improvements-for-social-sharing-buttons-and-form-block/\">Jetpack 11.9</a> was released this week with support for sharing posts to Mastodon. The new button allows readers to click an icon to launch a sharing window that will ask the user to enter the full URL of the Mastodon instance where they want to share the post.</p>\n\n\n\n<img />\n\n\n\n<p>Adding the URL will update the window to automatically insert the link for the post and share from your account. </p>\n\n\n\n<img />\n\n\n\n<p>Mastodon makes its <a href=\"https://api.joinmastodon.org/statistics\">usage numbers</a> publicly accessible. As of March 8, 2023, the total user count is at 6,487,821, with 1,293,309 considered active users. Many WordPress community members who have moved over to Mastodon report having more quality interactions and higher engagement than on other social media platforms. This new sharing button gives your posts more opportunities to reach that audience. It can be enabled at Jetpack > Settings > Sharing in the admin.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The Jetpack team is also looking at <a href=\"https://github.com/Automattic/jetpack/issues/7790\">adding Mastodon support to Publicize</a> so users can have their posts automatically shared when they are published. Many people have requested this feature on GitHub and it may land in the plugin sometime in the future.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Jetpack 11.9 also updates the design of the Stats dashboard. In place of the dusty blue bar graphs and sections with referrers and top pages and posts, the updated design is now more in line with Jetpack&#8217;s green branding. It features 7-day highlights at the top and the trends shown are in comparison to the previous seven days. The UI is more modern than the previous version and provides a more mobile-friendly experience. It is enabled by default but can be disabled in the Settings for those who prefer the traditional Stats design.</p>\n\n\n\n<img />\n\n\n\n<p>Also included in version 11.9 is a new &#8220;Sync Fields&#8221; style option in the Forms block that allows users to ensure fields maintain the same style as the blocks are edited.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This release includes more than a dozen bug fixes and compatibility updates. Check out the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/jetpack/#developers\">changelog</a> for all the details on the Development tab on the plugin&#8217;s WordPress.org page.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 08 Mar 2023 21:27:33 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"Sarah Gooding\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:28;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:118:\"WPTavern: #66 – Sé Reed and Courtney Robertson on How the WP Community Collective Is Helping WordPress Contributors\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:48:\"https://wptavern.com/?post_type=podcast&p=142472\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:131:\"https://wptavern.com/podcast/66-se-reed-and-courtney-robertson-on-how-the-wp-community-collective-is-helping-wordpress-contributors\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:52750:\"Transcript<div>\n<p>[00:00:00] Nathan Wrigley: Welcome to the Jukebox podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley. Jukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, enabling people to contribute to WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast player of choice. Or go to WPTavern.com forward slash feed forward slash podcast. And you can copy that URL into most podcast players.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you have a topic that you&#8217;d like us to feature on the podcast, I&#8217;m keen to hear from you, and hopefully get you all your idea featured on the show. Had to WPTavern.com forward slash contact forward slash jukebox, and use the form there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So on the podcast today, we have Sé Reed and Courtney Robertson, and they&#8217;re here to talk about the WP Community Collective, or WPCC for short. In a nutshell, the WPCC is a nonprofit that is hoping to fund contributors to the WordPress project.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s been said before, but I&#8217;ll say it again, people who can afford to contribute to the WordPress project are the people who can literally afford to contribute to WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This sounds obvious, but think about it for a moment. Most of us know WordPress is built on top of a dedicated base of volunteers. People give up their time and expertise to contribute towards the project, and in this way, make it free to download and use. But we all have to earn money at some point. Most are not in a position to donate their time completely freely. They have to put food on the table.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Often contributors are sponsored by the companies that they work for, either part-time or full-time. There&#8217;s nothing wrong with this model, but what about the capable, willing volunteers who are not in this position? The people who have the skills and motivation to contribute, but not the time or finances to make that a reality.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The WPCC wants to act as a go-between for companies or organizations who are willing to spend money improving WordPress, and the individuals who can implement those improvements.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This enterprise will be done via the WPCC fellowships. A fellowship in a specific area of WordPress is created, for example, an accessibility fellowship. People apply for that fellowship, and if successful, get the finances they need to take on the work.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This means that individuals don&#8217;t need to be working for an organization, which funds them directly, and the organizations which wish to contribute don&#8217;t need to fund only their own team members.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We talk about where the WPCC is at with their fellowships, and how it&#8217;s set up so that all participants are fully aware of where the money is being invested.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re from a company who would like to assist contributors to WordPress, or an individual wishing to get involved, this episode is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re interested in finding out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to WPTavern.com forward slash podcast, where you&#8217;ll find all the other episodes as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so without further delay, I bring you Sé Reed and Courtney Robertson.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I am joined on the podcast today by two wonderful people. I have Sé Reed and Courtney Robertson. Hello, both of you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:21] Sé Reed: Hi. Thanks for having us.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:22] Courtney Robertson: Hey, Nathan.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:23] Nathan Wrigley: Hello. Hello, hello. Well, welcome. We&#8217;re going to get into the meat and the bones of this subject today. We&#8217;re going to be talking about the WP Community Collective. I confess at the outset of this episode that I am going to be schooled. Most of the questions that I&#8217;m going to ask are from a point of view of ignorance, so forgive me. You&#8217;re going to educate me hopefully on this subject and we&#8217;ll learn together.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But first of all, just to orientate the listeners. I wonder if in turn, shall we start with Sé? Just a quick little potted history of who you are and how you&#8217;ve come to be in the WordPress space.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:56] Sé Reed: I&#8217;ve been using and building WordPress websites since 2007, which is wild to me because that&#8217;s, I think that&#8217;s 15, 16 years. I&#8217;ve been doing a WordPress podcast called WP Water Cooler since 2012. That is 10 years. And I have been part of the community, speaking at WordCamps, organizing WordCamps for I think also since 2012.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I fell in love with WordCamps at WordCamp Phoenix. I live in California, but I went to Phoenix and just absolutely fell in love as people do with the WordPress community mostly. I already loved the software. But yeah, I&#8217;ve been part of it ever since. I took a little break to have a kid and then Courtney here brought me right back into the fold. So blame her. It&#8217;s her fault.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:47] Nathan Wrigley: That seems like a perfect segue. That&#8217;s lovely. Thank you. And, let&#8217;s then segue to Courtney. Tell us about yourself.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:55] Courtney Robertson: Hey there. So I have been in the WordPress community since, well, I started using the software I believe in 2005. It would be around version 2.5. Started contributing by checking guests in at WordCamp Mid-Atlantic in 2009, and joined the training team, thus beginning my actual team contributions. In 2014 have had several stints of being the training team co rep. And at this time, you could still find me within the training team as a WordPress faculty member. And when I&#8217;m not doing all of those wonderful things, I am a developer advocate at GoDaddy Pro, and a lot of that work involves working with the open source and specifically WordPress communities.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:42] Nathan Wrigley: Wow. Really deep and rich, both of you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:44] Sé Reed: I forgot to say what I do, now. It&#8217;s all about the past. I was like, oh yeah, the present</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:49] Nathan Wrigley: Well tell us.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:50] Sé Reed: Courtney reminded me with her awesome contribution. I just took on a co-team rep role as well on the make marketing team, for 2023. So that&#8217;s exciting. In my day job I have my own company and I build websites for people and do digital strategy of all kinds.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:07:09] Nathan Wrigley: I&#8217;m often in awe about how many different roles there are in the WordPress community. I remember when I first stumbled across the software, I just viewed it as exactly that. It was a piece of software. So this is going back probably to 20, I don&#8217;t know, 2014, 2015, something like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then it very quickly became apparent that there was an awful lot going on with the community. Much more than I&#8217;d anticipated. And fast forward to today, 2023. I mean it has more or less taken over my, my entire life. It is more or less everything that I do.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:07:38] Sé Reed: We can relate to that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:07:40] Nathan Wrigley: Right. Yes. So we&#8217;re all in good company. We&#8217;ve given ourselves up to WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:07:44] Sé Reed: To an ethos, I think, is really what it is. I think that&#8217;s part of what draws the community together. You didn&#8217;t ask, but I&#8217;m going to answer it anyway. I think that&#8217;s really what, that ethos and the being part of something bigger. Whether it&#8217;s open source or the community or just spreading the goodness of easy to use software. I really think that&#8217;s what makes it different.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:08:05] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. Somebody was saying to me the other day about their conversations that they&#8217;ve been having with people about ceasing to use WordPress as their CMS of choice. But the glue which has kept them in it is the community. It&#8217;s that piece which has actually kept them going with the software. So in a strange sense the community has trumped the software in that instance.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:08:28] Sé Reed: That&#8217;s so true. I think that a lot of people stay in WordPress and WordPress has had such a, well, 20 years, this is its 20th anniversary year. So it&#8217;s had that success. I truly believe because of the community and because of the, really the stewardship that&#8217;s happened within the community. And again that ethos of drawing people together and, really just feeling like there&#8217;s a sense of, sort of a sense of ownership I think over, or at least stake in the community and stake in the software. It feels like we all have a part of it. I think that that&#8217;s, it&#8217;s something really special. It doesn&#8217;t exist even in other open source communities to the same degree.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:09:10] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, it is constantly remarkable to me that that is such an important piece, and it&#8217;s so ephemeral. I can&#8217;t quite get my hands on it. I don&#8217;t really understand what that thing is, but there is a thing there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:09:21] Sé Reed: Exactly.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:09:22] Nathan Wrigley: And, it&#8217;s wonderful and it, it&#8217;s gathered us together today to have a chat. You&#8217;ve recently got involved with something that, I&#8217;m going to pronounce it once. I&#8217;m going to say it once at the beginning and then I&#8217;m going to truncate it. So from the start we&#8217;re going to be talking about the WP Community Collective, so the WordPress Community Collective. But I&#8217;m probably either going to call it the community collective or just collective, because it&#8217;s going to be a whole lot easier.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:09:44] Sé Reed: Yeah. I didn&#8217;t think about WPCC being hard to say in a British accent, but.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:09:48] Nathan Wrigley: No, it&#8217;s funny, isn&#8217;t it? But that acronym somehow completely gets stuck on the end of my tongue before it escapes my mouth. What is it? I don&#8217;t mind which of you want to take it on? What is it? How did it come about? Broadly, in broad brush strokes, and then we can get into the detail. What&#8217;s the point of this?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:04] Sé Reed: What&#8217;s the point? That&#8217;s a great question, Nathan. I&#8217;ll take it, just to give the broad strokes. What the WP Community Collective is, is essentially it&#8217;s a non-profit project that allows, we are in the process of funding contributors to the WordPress project. So people who are working on the make teams and the open source WordPress software, that&#8217;s who we&#8217;re going to be, who we are supporting.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And, it&#8217;s really a way to bring together the community to allow us to fund and support the contributors who are doing so much work to keep this software slash community slash lifestyle going, moving forward and growing and responding to the needs of the community and technology. So really it&#8217;s about supporting the contributors that make up the community.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:11:06] Nathan Wrigley: So you mentioned two things there. You mentioned funding, and obviously that&#8217;s a key component of it, but you also mentioned more the community side of things. Being there as a supportive hand. Are they two distinct parts or is it all about the funding? Is that primarily what it&#8217;s about, or is it also about being a friendly face?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:11:25] Sé Reed: We&#8217;re trying not to be, we are, and we&#8217;ll continue to try to not be US focused. That&#8217;s something that happens a lot. That kind of defaults to that when we&#8217;re here. But, in America, the way that we like to show our support is with money.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>That&#8217;s a thing. You know we tip people. That&#8217;s sort of how we demonstrate that we like a thing. So not trying to bring that ethos necessarily into the greater world, but primarily we mean funding. So primarily we mean sponsoring people to do contribution of various types.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But we also have goals to basically be like a third space to have conversations about WordPress and the WordPress community and the ecosystem adjacent to the WordPress project. So, you know, all of the plug-ins and the themes and the assemblers and all of that world, the marketers. So, we want to provide a space to integrate all of that. But that&#8217;s more of just soft support. Really what it does come down to is funding support.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:12:36] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. Given that you&#8217;ve set up this WP Community Collective, and usually when something like this is set up, there&#8217;s a problem to be solved. There&#8217;s something that is identified as could be better. Let&#8217;s all gather around and figure out how we can do it. So, essentially what is the problem around the community?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>What are the problems that people are facing? Is it one simply that people who would willingly contribute their time simply can&#8217;t afford to do it? We often hear this mentioned that, you know, those who can afford to contribute are the ones who can afford to contribute, because they live in a certain part of the world. They may be fully employed so they can dedicate something. Perhaps their company is kind enough to, give them a day, a week or half a day, whatever it may be. They&#8217;re seconded in some way so they can contribute to the project. But there&#8217;s a whole ton of people, hundreds of people who would love to be in that position. But the financial component is the barrier. It&#8217;s the wall that&#8217;s stopping them being able to contribute.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:13:33] Sé Reed: Yeah, at the end of the day there&#8217;s really two sides of this. And, one side is how can people effectively and consistently and meaningfully participate in the project if they can&#8217;t consistently show up? You know, so much happens every day in the WordPress make channels on the P2s, on the blogs. There&#8217;s a lot going on, and there are a lot of people moving the project forward and even just paying attention and keeping tabs on all of the new stuff that&#8217;s happening is kind of a full-time job.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So really, what ends up happening is that the folks who are in leadership roles tend to be sponsored contributors. And I say leadership roles, whether that&#8217;s a team rep role, which is, it&#8217;s leadership, but it&#8217;s not like authority leadership. But, just by showing up consistently and responding to things and being there every day, which you can do if you are paid to do so, that gives you, I don&#8217;t want to use the word clout, but it gives you, I&#8217;m not really sure what the word is. When we talk about it being a meritocracy, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you do things, then you have influence, and people want to do more, but only the people who are really supported financially to be able to do that. Or like you said, have the means in some other way, have the ability to consistently show up in that meritocracy. And so in a way, by default, we&#8217;re really the leadership and the ongoing constant push forward really does tend to be from the sponsored side of the contributor pool, let&#8217;s say. And everyone else tends to just be catching up or lending their opinion in different places.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, that&#8217;s one of the reasons, is we want to be able to have folks contribute and contribute consistently, and contribute in a meaningful way to parts of the project that are maybe not getting as much of attention or need more attention, like accessibility. And so we&#8217;re really trying to find a way to support those people, and bring the community together to support those people. And really, Courtney can talk a little bit about the problems that, it&#8217;s not just that individuals have problems finding support, it&#8217;s that the people who want to support have problems funding the individuals. So Courtney, do you want to talk to that, about that a little bit?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:16:05] Courtney Robertson: So for context, I shared that I had started contributing in 2009, and for a number of years, in fact, up until a year and a half ago, I was not sponsored. I wouldn&#8217;t even say I was self sponsored financially. But I contributed. In fact, I was the person couch surfing at a WordCamp US on my college roommate&#8217;s couch, and driving quite a distance in, and could, at the time, barely scrape together the funds to take care of my parking.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I know what that experience has been like and to still want to contribute and to still feel that this is part of my work, my role. And I undoubtedly benefited from all of the hardships of my past. I&#8217;ve had some medical challenges, some other life things, you know, as people do. And without that experience, I certainly wouldn&#8217;t be involved in WPCC. I wouldn&#8217;t have gotten to the job that I have now at GoDaddy Pro. There&#8217;s just a lot of reasons for seeing from that perspective that I think has really benefited.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So from the person that is seeking to be sponsored in some capacity, I&#8217;ll say what I did, very publicly. I was teaching at the time, I loved it, but I felt like my higher purpose was to do more of the work on Learn to be able to create this content that could be a multiplier effect to impact that many more students, that many more learners than the current job that I had had.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And in order to do that, I started to let some folks know. And I went to my now manager and said, if GoDaddy ever has a role open up where I could be contributing to the training team as part of my work time, Adam Warner, please keep me in mind for that. And in fact, he did. Now, that doesn&#8217;t mean that everybody has the gumption to go out and start approaching folks and say, I would like to receive.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I appreciate those that have spoken up and let folks like Sé and I know. We&#8217;re working on some processes to sort of collect that information. Who&#8217;s already contributing that would like to contribute at a higher capacity? We have some contributors that I know of in our WordPress community that said, I would like to be sponsored. For instance, Joe Dolson says, I would like to be sponsored at $500 US a month to contribute this certain amount to accessibility purposes. Other than that, I&#8217;m tied up with clients. And then increasingly grew that over time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But still that process, it doesn&#8217;t matter who you are or where you&#8217;re from. That process of saying, I want to do this takes a certain amount of navigating, what can be perceived as awkward because you&#8217;re expecting handouts, but at the same time you are a professional and you bring professional caliber qualities to the work that you do for this open source project that is used by 43% of the internet.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So yes, there is a reason that contributors should be funded. We definitely know this and that pathway of letting folks know can be awkward and challenging. And then the pathway from those that have the funds to do the sponsoring, whether you are an individual or a company, both perspectives of this get a little tricky.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So from an individual&#8217;s perspective, there are those if you look through the WPCCs sponsors so far, we&#8217;ve raised all of our funds essentially through individuals at this time. And that&#8217;s several thousand US dollars. So that&#8217;s just coming in from individuals who said, yes, this matters. Yes, we want to fund what&#8217;s going on in the work.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so it takes a lot of people, that are individual people, giving a little bit to reach that kind of a goal. And then from a company&#8217;s perspective, a lot of companies struggle too, how to fund the work of open source. And recently I&#8217;ve been researching in and getting into this more deeply, and it&#8217;s not just about the WordPress community, but just how does whether you are an individual, small business company, and I see some really great ones that are doing this.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>JB over in the Core team is part of about a two dozen staff member agency based out of France. And all of their staff are contributors. And I think it&#8217;s amazing that companies who done it. So, great work on them. But other organizations, whether you&#8217;re a small business, you may not quite know how, well, how do I manage, how do I, if I&#8217;m contributing, what do I get? Is it just I&#8217;m contributing in a charitable way and I don&#8217;t have much attachment to the work that the person does? How do I know that what I&#8217;m contributing to has any payoff for, not just the goodwill of my company, right? That&#8217;s a marketing approach, but also that the people receiving it are actually doing something productive with it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Should there be accountability in all of that? When you get into larger size organizations like my employer, we&#8217;re not structured in a way, we&#8217;re a publicly held company. We&#8217;re not structured in a way that has a whole staff of who&#8217;s overseeing the work of those that we are sponsoring.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>GoDaddy does have two full-time people that are essentially staff that we sponsor to work on WordPress. We ambitiously would like to keep growing that, but there are challenges. So when it comes to GoDaddy related to WPCC, I&#8217;m really excited that we&#8217;re in the conversations right now of getting that money flowing a bit more.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I can&#8217;t make any promises from GoDaddy&#8217;s side of as to what all that would look like, but what I can absolutely say is that we know it&#8217;s a real need. We know that the WordPress community will greatly benefit from this. But as it would turn out, a large company like this can&#8217;t just go making purchases from any kind of business or giving money to any kind of organization.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:21:27] Sé Reed: Shareholders don&#8217;t like it when you just randomly give money to people.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:21:30] Courtney Robertson: No, they don&#8217;t.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:21:32] Sé Reed: They don&#8217;t.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:21:32] Courtney Robertson: Oh, there are so many stories that I could say. But, to that end, what I for sure am happy to say though is that we&#8217;re working together in a way that will do all of the red tape that a company would need, to get that approved and cleared so that those funds can start flowing. And, so I&#8217;m really excited about it from that side because you know what? GoDaddy can&#8217;t just stuff a bunch of bills in an envelope and mail it out to someone. They have to actually have a strategy when it comes down to why are we doing this? What&#8217;s the outcome? What&#8217;s the, the ROI, right, of these things?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And investing in the software that powers 43% of the internet, that many of our customers are using. Well that sounds like we have a good reason to be investing in that. So it makes it quite interesting to navigate those challenges. From an internal perspective, I encourage folks at other corporations, if you&#8217;re facing those challenges, to reach out to me and I&#8217;d be happy to have some private conversations with you about what specific challenges you might be facing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:22:34] Sé Reed: And how the WPCC.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:22:36] Courtney Robertson: Yes, can help with that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:22:38] Nathan Wrigley: Courtney, there was loads in there, and I just want to drill down a little bit on you personally, if you don&#8217;t mind, because I find that quite an interesting dialogue. You used the word gumption there, which I thought was quite interesting. And, it sounds like you&#8217;re very self-reliant. You are driven, and it sounds like you just kept banging on doors and fighting the good fight and keeping going, and eventually that paid off. But I&#8217;m guessing that there were times during the period where it wasn&#8217;t paying off, where you must have looked at yourself and thought, what the heck am I doing?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I guess that&#8217;s the person that is going to benefit from this, the person who knows that they want to contribute, but really has maybe been trying, struggling, doesn&#8217;t have a way through, doesn&#8217;t have a pathway through. And we don&#8217;t want those people to be disappointed and turned away.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:23:22] Courtney Robertson: Correct. Yeah, so for a number of years, in fact I took a hiatus. I had little kids and I had a set amount of hours available in my day, and I worked for a WordPress plugin company that I loved that experience. But I worked during only their nap time schedule. So, I didn&#8217;t have time to contribute or even keep up with the quantity of information that was happening on WordPress. And that was all during the lead up to and release of Gutenberg. So, it was a hard time to be missing all of that information.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But I will say that there are a wealth of contributors in our community that if they had that financial backing would have a better quality of life, be able to contribute that much more because they could let go of their other income sources as an offset.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I had started to let the previous employers, I worked for two other WordPress organizations previously, and I started to let them know that I would like to be involved more in WordPress, and the work happening there. And they didn&#8217;t have that capacity built into their business models, right. And so I felt that by approaching somebody like GoDaddy, I knew that they had a couple of contributors, and this was more of a, the role that I am in affords me some time. I am not full-time sponsored to WordPress. But it affords me quite a bit of time and it is vital to the job that I do to be a contributor, if that makes sense?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:24:53] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. That&#8217;s really, really interesting.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:24:55] Sé Reed: I was going to say that that&#8217;s the, it&#8217;s exactly that dilemma that even Courtney, who is literally representing open source and doing massive WordPress contribution with her company. Even her job is not a hundred percent WordPress. And that&#8217;s part of it because there&#8217;s a need for contribution.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I don&#8217;t know, we really have clarified that part, but like the contribution has, because of covid, because of the lack of WordCamps or whatnot, did definitely take a dive. And also there are so many other CMSs and worlds out there that it&#8217;s not just inevitable that WordPress is going to continue to have a healthy community and continue to grow and continue to be the CMS and the software that we all know and love.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>That&#8217;s not a given in the world of actual capitalism that we live in and whatnot. So if we want it to be around, if we want to support it, then we need to find ways to connect the resources that are there with the efforts that can be made on the ground. And making that connection between companies that have budgets, but don&#8217;t have the ability to hire people. That is really, I think the, well, it&#8217;s not just for companies, but that&#8217;s really the key element for the WPCC.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Because we know there are lots of resources out there. There&#8217;s lots of agencies, there&#8217;s lots of businesses that have some funds, you know, they&#8217;re making revenue off of their various products or their services. But they can&#8217;t say maybe giving five hours a month or something isn&#8217;t even that productive for them. But if they were able to take their money and combine that with other folks who are also in the same situation, then they can help fund someone who is able to put that focus in.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And also a big part of what we&#8217;re doing is making sure that those fellows are talking about what it is they&#8217;re doing. The challenges that they&#8217;re facing. So bringing the information also back out into the community, so it&#8217;s not just a you&#8217;re putting money in and you know, you never know what happens to that, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Our fellows will be responding, or blogging actually, on the website telling us what they&#8217;re doing. Telling us what&#8217;s going on in the project and, so folks who are putting their funds into the WPCC are combining their money to make it more effective, but also doing it in a way that gives them a say in it. Not necessarily a say in it, but like a part of it. They get to participate in it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>They are also part of the community collective. So it is all, all of us working together. So it&#8217;s really just about allocating resources and, available energy really. We&#8217;re just putting resources and energy together and combining them and helping to move the project forward.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:27:56] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, so essentially it feels to me, I mean I may be parsing this wrong, but it feels like you are acting as a conduit. You are the bridge between the people who have money, let&#8217;s say for want of a better word, finances. But they don&#8217;t necessarily know where those finances would best go. So they come to you, deposit it there in the collective, and then your job is to make decisions about who would be the best steward of that money.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then get them to do whatever it is that you&#8217;ve agreed to do and then report back to the sponsors in the form of blogging or what have you, so that they&#8217;ve got some way of, well, I guess the word is, sort of oversight really. They&#8217;ve got a little bit of oversight and they can see that their money hasn&#8217;t in fact just been squandered. And so it&#8217;s a really neat little idea.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:28:45] Sé Reed: Thanks, we like it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:28:47] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, yeah. The thing that interests me is, as soon as you get involved with money, and you alluded to this earlier, you know. The government, they don&#8217;t like to have people just willy nilly spraying money all over the place. And so if companies are giving you money, presumably they want to know that it&#8217;s being marshaled correctly, you know. It&#8217;s not being squandered. It&#8217;s being used effectively in ways that perhaps align with a brand that they&#8217;ve got, you know, it maybe that they want it to go in a particular direction. They might be more interested in accessibility than others. Others might be more into, I don&#8217;t know, we could invent a thousand different other categories. How does that all get figured out? In other words what are the kind of roles that you are giving people who are taking on the work that you are paying them for?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:29:30] Sé Reed: That&#8217;s a great question. We are starting with accessibility, because it is so clearly a need, and it is also very, very underfunded in terms of sponsored contributors. We&#8217;ll be launching, I keep pushing the date on this, but we&#8217;re going to be launching our first, or announcing who our first fellow is shortly, for our accessibility fellowship. The goal is to fund that person for five hours a week for a minimum of six months.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Normally we would fund the entire fellowship prior to launching it, or starting with the person. We would fund the fellowship first. But in this case, we wanted to start with a fellowship that we already knew was really important. And so we created the accessibility fellowship first.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>That&#8217;s really our initial goal is to get that funded. So we are working with some additional partners to develop partnership fellowships. And essentially those, it&#8217;s in a way, it&#8217;s like a scholarship, right? A fellowship is very much like a scholarship. We&#8217;ll have an application process for folks to apply to be fellows, and then different fellowships will have different focuses. So we are scoping out currently, like I said, accessibility fellowships, but also some Core fellowships. And not just Core in terms of development, but also Core in terms of communication.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:30:51] Courtney Robertson: I&#8217;d like to elaborate a little bit on what Sé was saying there is that, as part of all of this, we have so many roles across different teams. Whether you are in Core because you&#8217;re a developer or because you can help wrangle the information that the Core team needs to function as a team, to share externally.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Over in other teams we need some assets like project management. In other teams, we need areas like project management skills. Accessibility could relate to the accessibility of the software, but it could just as easily relate to the accessibility of the learn.wordpress.org content, and or site functionality. So you could see how there are different roles beyond what we normally envision for the different teams that relate to just keeping the whole project up and running. And we&#8217;re pretty aware of that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Likewise, being able to get to your nearest international camp and or a couple of very local regional camps might be important. Or ongoing professional development in your areas. So those are all skills and assets and resources that come to our mind because we have been both contributors into the WordPress project for quite a while.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Additionally, if I were to ask folks how to get involved in the WPCC, there are a few ways to do so. Any person is welcome to come be a member. So we have memberships available, anyone can be a member. Ideally that would come with a few funds towards those that are contributors. But we welcome members to just come and join. And the show notes will link you over to our website, and from there you can follow it out to the opencollective.com/thewpcc.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We also welcome sponsorships. Sponsorships, again would look like those that would like to sponsor a specific initiative. So if we have a very specific fellowship that you would like to help fund, you can choose to come along and be a part of that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then we also have areas for partnerships. And that&#8217;s the area that, one of the areas that, my employer is starting to look at is partnerships. So perhaps they would like to kick off a specific fellowship, right? There might be general fellowships that the WPCC declares and says, the WPCC needs to, sees that we need to work on accessibility. So we&#8217;re going to launch one of those.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But what if there were specific fellowships available based upon different companies in the industry, right? And so if you would like to set up a specific partnership to drive a specific initiative, that&#8217;s definitely an option available as well That could also look like partnering with other WordPress organizations to help fund initiatives that we&#8217;ve seen already.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I loved for WordCamp US the amount of organizations that pulled resources together to increase diverse speakers at organizations. To increase diverse speakers to attend and speak at WordCamp US. So we can partner with lots of different organizations. We hope to be announcing some of those partnerships in the not too distant future to really benefit what the work of the WordPress community is and what that can look like.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:33:56] Nathan Wrigley: So the next question I&#8217;ve got is, Courtney just then mentioned that happy to have people come along and if they bring finance with them, that&#8217;s very, very welcome. But let&#8217;s say that I come along and it&#8217;s my company, or it&#8217;s me and we just bring a modest amount of money. You know, I&#8217;m not a giant entity. I&#8217;ve got $500, a thousand dollars, whatever it may be. Do I have sort of any say in where that ends up? Or is it more a case of just trust us on this one? We&#8217;ll publish some documentation about where the money&#8217;s being spent? Where do we stand with that?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:30] Sé Reed: Well, the organization that we are fiscally hosted through, is a, it&#8217;s a payment system essentially, with nonprofit sponsorship that allows us to take in funds and spend funds and the entire budget, every dollar that goes in or out of the WPCC is documented and on the website for everyone to see. So everyone can see exactly where all of the money is going in terms of accountability.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But in terms of participatory, or just influence or whatnot. We&#8217;re actually in the process of working on our bylaws, but our rough outline for this is essentially that we have a membership and you can join for free, or you can join at a membership payment level annually, if you want to support that way.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And we&#8217;re working out the exact guidelines for voting and that sort of a thing. We want to base it on, have you contributed in the last year, or we&#8217;re working on those types of criteria. But essentially the membership will be able to, first of all talk to us, which is not just talk to us, but talk to the board. But we&#8217;ll also be part of the decision making process. Not on a individual, specific, fellowship level, but on a what do we focus on level.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And also for the larger projects that we want to take on, the community will be, or the membership will be involved in that as well. So, a company cannot be a member because we don&#8217;t believe in Citizens United in our organization, which is a Supreme Court ruling that said corporations are people here in the US. So it&#8217;s only individuals who are going to be able to participate as members.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Like I said, that will be more of a let&#8217;s figure out what needs to be funded. Do we want to worry about old bugs in the system, or do we want to fund accessibility, or do we want to really have a push to the re-envisioning of the media manager, for example. The media library. So, the community, the membership will have a say in that type of way. It won&#8217;t be that the community, the membership is voting on every single action that is taken. Because that would become a bureaucratic nightmare.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But in terms of direction and goals and partnerships and strategy, the membership can and will be an active part of that conversation. So our goal is to really be transparent and also be a, sort of a incubator for those conversations about funding. About project priorities that aren&#8217;t just the make project priorities. Because there are also important components that affect the rest of the ecosystem, like PHP 8, for example. And the push, the development push, that&#8217;s needed to get things ready for that. Like that&#8217;s something that&#8217;s definitely been important to the community, but has not necessarily gotten as much traction in Core as some people would like. So there&#8217;s all sorts of different issues like that that can be given attention and brought to the surface, and hopefully, we all just can move forward, move the project forward, more.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:37:47] Nathan Wrigley: Can I ask in terms of the fellowships and who receives the fellowships? So how will that work? So let&#8217;s say, for example, I would like to contribute my time into some area, and I notice on the website at the time that I&#8217;m looking that I fit the bill. I would like to help in that way. Is it kind of like a job application process, where I fill out a form and some panel that I may be speaking to, or may do it without the need for my attendance.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Do they decide who it&#8217;s going to be? Because obviously there&#8217;s concerns there about things like favoritism, or whether the correct person gets the job. But also concerns about weighting things so that people who perhaps, how to describe this, people who currently really would struggle to be able to contribute, maybe they get some leg up if you like. There&#8217;s a little bit more weight for certain individuals than others for the circumstances in which they find themselves. So just questions around that really.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:38:44] Sé Reed: It&#8217;s going to be more like, rather than a job application, more like a scholarship. And that&#8217;s really what fellowships, that that kind of fellowship structure is really why we chose that. Because, it&#8217;s not a permanent position. It&#8217;s a temporary position, six months, a year, two years, depending on what we, you know, are tackling. Maybe even three months for short term contribution if that needs to happen.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But, basically it&#8217;ll be, we will create the fellowships and identify the need, and then open applications for people to apply for the fellowship. And then we will evaluate those applications and select fellows. So essentially it&#8217;s very much like a scholarship or, I would like to think less like a job interview.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:39:26] Nathan Wrigley: So given everything that Sé just said about the way that you are going to be giving out these fellowships, and the way that they&#8217;re going to be distributed. Given that there&#8217;s a lot of work on the sponsorship side, there&#8217;s a lot of work on the people who are getting these fellowships as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>There must be a lot of work being done by you and the people in the organization. So how is that funded? Is there a certain proportion of the finance that goes through the WPCC that is taken for administrative tasks and so on? Or is this an entirely nonprofit? I think in the US you call it a 501C3?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:40:04] Courtney Robertson: Yeah, so there are a few ways of the funds coming in. It is an option, strong option to go through the nonprofit direction. There is a total of 15% overhead that we need to take care of. Some of that goes to the direct operating costs of the WPCC. And to be clear, that doesn&#8217;t fund Sé, Katie or I, who are the current board members, personally. That just goes to the operating expenses of the WPCC.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Also, there is a fee in addition to that, that goes through Open Collective because they are the payment processor. They are the way that makes it possible for us to see all of these financial transactions. This is an organization that is set up specifically for open source initiatives, and they provide that oversight. That means we don&#8217;t have to go get a bank account. We don&#8217;t have to go set up a non-profit organization. We don&#8217;t have to do all of those extra things because Open Collective provides that for us and many others. So they do take a small portion of the funds that come through.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And the remaining amount goes directly to those that are doing the work. At this time, because we are the three that stepped in together and said, let&#8217;s launch this thing, we are the board. Over the next year you&#8217;ll start receiving some more announcements and information about putting together a more complete board. That board will always hold a seat for the executive director of the project, whomever that shall be. So that&#8217;s definitely going to be one board member, optionally, additionally added.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But in addition to that, we will be looking for those to become board members over the next several years. This first year out, we just thought, you know, we just need to launch this thing and get some traction going. Let&#8217;s get some action happening.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:41:53] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. This may sound like an incredibly cynical question, and I apologize if it is. Sometimes I get the feeling that companies when they do sponsorships and things like that, they like to proclaim, they like to advertise the fact because it&#8217;s good business. You know, they&#8217;ve done a good thing and they would like a little bit of recognition on the backside of that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Is there anything in here like that for people who contribute? Say, for example, a company, they might get a badge or a sticker or some kind of way that they can say, look, in the year 2020, I contributed to this project and I&#8217;m proudly going to identify myself as such.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:42:30] Courtney Robertson: Sure. So first and foremost I&#8217;ll speak to, there are three different departments within my employer at GoDaddy, that each have varying reasons they would like to make use of funding contributors through the WPCC. Out of all of those, none of them are for self-interest. And I say this to be super clear to the community, yes, I am an employee. Yes, I have mentioned my employer many times in this episode. But it really is not about proclaiming, here we are, look at us.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I do though understand that there is a marketing advantage and so, I think it is worth people being aware of the good that does happen. That&#8217;s not the sole reason why it should be done, this work should continue. But for those to know who is helping make that work be possible, the WPCC will be able to set up fellowships with those partnership type of programs, those partnership initiatives, so that if some other organization would like to come along and say, we would like to start up a fellowship for an individual or for a group of individuals, and that being maybe a six month rotation.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And out of that, perhaps they later bring them on as staff as well. And so there is that piece, or that component as well, where the WPCC can be that entry point. Especially for organizations that don&#8217;t have the dedicated internals of managing and maintaining this. And they&#8217;re just beginning to explore what does it look like. Or they would like the contributors that are doing this as their job to be really thoroughly trained.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And also, all organizations that sponsor contributors, some of that information goes back to what that company does. For instance, I know that the work that George Mamadashvili does in Gutenberg really helps shape some of the internal information around how some of the themes and plugins that GoDaddy creates makes Gutenberg implementation possible for our customers, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so, there&#8217;s a lot of value in this, and at no point would I ever slight that a company should be able to say, here is what we have contributed. Especially when many are looking at or watching, well, how do you contribute to WordPress as an organization, right? So those fellowships and the partnership programs will definitely be an option for that. As well, organizations can say, we are providing this amount of funding, and it could go into whatever bucket the WPCC would like to put it into.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:44:58] Nathan Wrigley: Hmm. I guess you&#8217;re on the first few steps of hopefully a long journey and a lot of these things are going to be ironed out and figured out over time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:45:07] Courtney Robertson: Right.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:45:08] Nathan Wrigley: Courtney and Sé if somebody has been interested in what they&#8217;ve heard today and they would like to come to you and get some more information, where is the best place to find you? Let&#8217;s start with Courtney.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:45:20] Courtney Robertson: You could find me personally as courtneyr_dev on most of the social platforms. Sometimes that&#8217;s a hyphen. If you get lost, head to my personal website, courtneyr.dev. You could certainly find out about thewpcommunitycollective.com. That will get you the information that will take you across our website as well as across to the listing that we have with Open Collective, where you can actually put in your information.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:45:47] Nathan Wrigley: Thank you very much. Right, Sé. Where do we find information about you?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:45:51] Sé Reed: Well, the best thing to do is go join us on the thewpcommunitycollective.com. Connect to us by joining our organization. That&#8217;s the best way. But I am currently @sereed on mastodon.social. I&#8217;m on LinkedIn. I&#8217;m in the Slack channels. I&#8217;m in the Post Status channels. So if anyone wants to get a hold of me, probably Slack in the WordPress community is the best way. I still look at my Twitter DMs, even though I&#8217;m staunchly anti Twitter now, sadly. But I&#8217;m still there. I&#8217;m still around listening, so. I&#8217;m at sereedmedia on all the things, I&#8217;m around. There&#8217;s, I don&#8217;t know if there&#8217;s any other Sé Reeds either, but you know.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We really want to participate with the community. We really want to hear from the community. Have ideas, have suggestions, have comments. This is a community effort. This is a, a larger project than Courtney and myself. We&#8217;re trying to be anti gatekeepers. Taking influence from Courtney, who is an anti gatekeeper. We really want this to be a community project and a community organization. So please get involved. Connect with us. We want to hear from you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:47:02] Nathan Wrigley: I will make to put all of the links in the show notes, so if anybody is curious, just head over to wptavern.com and search for this episode. Really an absolute pleasure talking to you. I&#8217;ve learned a lot. I&#8217;ve definitely got a much greater, more concrete understanding of exactly what the WPCC is, and hopefully you will get some more interest as a result of this podcast.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Courtney, Sé, thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:47:27] Courtney Robertson: Thank you Nathan.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:47:28] Sé Reed: Thank you Nathan.</p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>On the podcast today, we have <a href=\"https://twitter.com/sereedmedia\">Sé Reed</a> and <a href=\"https://twitter.com/courtneyr_dev\">Courtney Robertson</a>, and they’re here to talk about the <a href=\"https://www.thewpcommunitycollective.com/\">WP Community Collective</a>, or WPCC for short.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In a nutshell, the WPCC is a non-profit that is hoping to fund contributors to the WordPress project. It’s been said before, but I’ll say it again, people who can afford to contribute to the WordPress project are the people who can literally afford to contribute to WordPress. This sounds obvious, but think about it for a minute.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Most of us know WordPress is built on top of a dedicated base of volunteers. People give up their time and expertise to contribute towards the project, and in this way make it free to download and use. But we all have to earn money at some point. Most are not in a position to donate their time completely freely; they have to put food on the table.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Often contributors are sponsored by the companies that they work for, either part time or full time. There’s nothing wrong with this model, but what about the capable, willing volunteers who are not in this position? The people who have the skills and motivation to contribute, but not the time or finances to make that a reality.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The WPCC wants to act as a go between for companies or organisations who are willing to spend money improving WordPress, and the individuals who can implement those improvements.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This enterprise will be done via the WPCC fellowships. A fellowship in a specific area of WordPress is created, for example, an accessibility fellowship. People apply for that fellowship, and if successful, get the finances they need to take on the work.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This means that individuals don’t need to be working for an organisation which funds them directly, and the organisations which wish to contribute don’t need to fund only their own team members.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We talk about where the WPCC is at with their fellowships, and how it’s set up so that all participants are fully aware of where the money is being invested.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you’re from a company who would like to assist contributors to WordPress, or an individual wishing to get involved, this episode is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Useful links.</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.thewpcommunitycollective.com/\">WP Community Collective (WPCC) website</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://wpwatercooler.com/\">WP Watercooler podcast</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://phoenix.wordcamp.org/2023/\">WordCamp Phoenix</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.godaddy.com/en-uk/pro/hub-dashboard\">GoDaddy Pro</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/marketing/\">Make Marketing Team</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/\">Learn WordPress website</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://opencollective.com/thewpcc\">WPCC on the Open Collective website</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://opencollective.com/\">Open Collective website</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://courtneyr.dev/\">courtneyr.dev &#8211; Courtney&#8217;s website</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://twitter.com/courtneyr_dev\">Courtney&#8217;s Twitter</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://twitter.com/sereedmedia\">Sé&#8217;s Twitter</a></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 08 Mar 2023 15:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Nathan Wrigley\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:29;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:54:\"WPTavern: WP Engine Pattern Manager Plugin Now in Beta\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:30:\"https://wptavern.com/?p=142504\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:65:\"https://wptavern.com/wp-engine-pattern-manager-plugin-now-in-beta\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:6877:\"<p>WP Engine is <a href=\"https://wpengine.com/builders/pattern-manager/\">beta testing</a> its new Pattern Manager plugin for creating and maintaining patterns. The plugin is intended for WordPress professionals &#8211; developers, agencies, and freelancers, who could benefit from having an interface and system for pattern management. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>&#8220;There are some plugins out there that provide an interface for creating patterns on a production site, but this is not built for that,&#8221; WP Engine Principal Engineer Mike McAlister said. &#8220;This is meant to slide into a dev workflow where you’re creating, editing, managing patterns for a client, for release in a theme, etc.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Plugins like <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/control-block-patterns/\">Build &amp; Control Block Patterns</a> (2k active installs) and <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/mywp-custom-patterns/\">MyWP Block Pattern</a> (200 active installs) allow users to build block patterns from the admin instead of writing code for them. They offer features like saving page content made with blocks into a pattern, unregistering block patterns, creating custom pattern categories, and more. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>After taking WP Engine&#8217;s Pattern Manager for a test run, it&#8217;s clear that the emphasis in this plugin is going to be more on pattern organization than on the builder aspect. After activating the plugin, clicking on the Patterns screen takes you to a catalogue of all the existing patterns, based on the site&#8217;s active theme. They are organized by category and are also searchable. </p>\n\n\n\n<img />\n\n\n\n<p>I installed the plugin alongside a theme with more than 30 block patterns included to get a better feel for how it works. From the main pattern management screen users can edit, duplicate, and delete existing patterns. Clicking through to edit a pattern lets users add their own pattern categories, keywords, extended description, designate which post types the pattern shows up in, and optionally hide the pattern from the inserter.</p>\n\n\n\n<img />\n\n\n\n<p>Pattern creation happens on its own dedicated screen, which works just like the block editor but with the pattern-specific settings in the sidebar. Once a pattern is saved, it will appear with the others on the pattern management screen. The pattern is attached to the theme, so users should understand that they will not have access to their custom patterns if they activate a different theme.</p>\n\n\n\n<img />\n\n\n\n<p>Users might be curious about creating patterns directly in the block editor. After putting some blocks together in an artful arrangement, it might be convenient to be able to save them as a new pattern for the theme. McAlister said this is not currently possible but it is under consideration.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>&#8220;Right now, pattern creation is limited to the Pattern Manager UI, where we can do some interesting and powerful things under the hood,&#8221; he said. &#8220;That doesn&#8217;t mean we won&#8217;t one day be able to do it inline, but in terms of exploring this concept as a workflow enhancement, we&#8217;ve limited it to a specific screen.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>After launching the beta, web designer Wolfgang Stefani <a href=\"https://twitter.com/wolfgegenlicht/status/1627881988903559169\">asked</a> on Twitter if it is possible to update patterns globally using the plugin. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>&#8220;No, not yet,&#8221; McAlister responded. &#8220;It’s not a shortcoming of the plugin, rather how WP treats patterns right now. However, this will be possible with patterns soon, probably sometime this year.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Although there are many additional feature requests that might benefit developers and designers&#8217; workflows, the plugin&#8217;s creators are launching the beta to test the waters and see how users fare with this initial set of features.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>&#8220;Certainly parts of this workflow are opinionated, based on how we’re building patterns, but we’re doing this beta to understand how other folks are building,&#8221; McAlister said. &#8220;We’re open to any and all feedback to improve the overall workflow.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In a recent post titled &#8220;<a href=\"https://olliewp.com/patterns-are-gonna-be-a-game-changer-for-wordpress/\">Patterns are gonna be a game changer for WordPress</a>,&#8221; McAlister outlined his vision for how pattern functionality could be expanded in WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote\">\n<p>What if, for starters, patterns were a treated more like intelligent components? What if instead of being treated as <em>just</em> a collection of blocks, patterns were an entity that WordPress could use as a conduit to do more advanced site building?</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>McAlister explored a few ideas, such as making patterns more like template parts, globally synced and editable, adding pattern locking, and adding the ability to build style variations for patterns. The future is wide open for patterns to become far more useful than they currently are today, and third-party developers are exploring how they can extend this feature that has become so indispensable to building pages with WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>WP Engine&#8217;s Pattern Manager fits in nicely into the admin interface, almost like a natural part of core, but the top-level menu for Patterns seems too prominent and should be relocated under Appearance. After testing the plugin, I can see how it could become a valuable tool for managing pattern visibility for clients and speeding up page building by offering a more organized system for patterns. The CMS use case is strong here. Agencies that build the same kinds of sites over and over again could benefit from using this tool to quickly add and duplicate custom block patterns and restrict those that don&#8217;t make sense in certain parts of a client-managed site.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>During the live product demo for WordPress 6.2, a viewer asked if core will be adding more robust pattern management capabilities in the future à la WP Engine&#8217;s Pattern Manager plugin. The response was that this is a possibility for the future but is not currently a strong priority.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In the meantime, WP Engine plans to release the plugin for free on WordPress.org after testing with users and updating it based on feedback.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>&#8220;We have no plans of monetizing,&#8221; McAlister said. &#8220;Right now, we’re more interested in digging into the developer workflow and finding unique solutions we can offer to folks who are digging into these modern WordPress tools.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you want to get in on the beta program, you can <a href=\"https://wpengine.com/builders/pattern-manager/\">sign up</a> to get access to a zip file of the plugin. Your feedback may be incorporated into future versions of the plugin that will eventually land on WordPress.org.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 07 Mar 2023 23:32:32 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"Sarah Gooding\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:30;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:83:\"Do The Woo Community: What the WordPress Community Loved About WordCamp Asia Part 2\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=74607\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:82:\"https://dothewoo.io/what-the-wordpress-community-loved-about-wordcamp-asia-part-2/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:415:\"<p>Part 2 where we hear from attendees, post-WordCamp, on their experiences at WordCamp Asia 2023.</p>\n<p>&gt;&gt; The post <a rel=\"nofollow\" href=\"https://dothewoo.io/what-the-wordpress-community-loved-about-wordcamp-asia-part-2/\">What the WordPress Community Loved About WordCamp Asia Part 2</a> appeared first on <a rel=\"nofollow\" href=\"https://dothewoo.io\">Do the Woo - a WooCommerce Builder Community</a>	.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 07 Mar 2023 10:16:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:31;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:83:\"WPTavern: WordPress’ Legacy Default Themes Updated to Bundle Google Fonts Locally\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:30:\"https://wptavern.com/?p=142491\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:91:\"https://wptavern.com/wordpress-legacy-default-themes-updated-to-bundle-google-fonts-locally\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:2311:\"<p>WordPress contributors have updated the legacy default themes to bundle Google Fonts locally in the theme folder, instead of loading them from Google&#8217;s servers. In years past, loading fonts from the the Google CDN was the recommended practice for performance reasons, but new privacy concerns have emerged following a German court case, which <a href=\"https://wptavern.com/german-court-fines-website-owner-for-violating-the-gdpr-by-using-google-hosted-fonts\">fined a website owner for violating the GDPR by using Google-hosted webfonts</a>, </p>\n\n\n\n<p>All of the default themes from Twenty Twelve to Twenty Seventeen have been updated. The process began nine month ago but the approach took some time for contributors to refine. Updates to default themes are usually done in coordination with major and minor releases of WordPress, as core contributor Jonathan Desrosiers explained in the <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/55985\">ticket</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>&#8220;The reason the updates are usually coordinated is that the themes are usually updated to be compatible with new versions of WordPress, so releasing at the same time makes a lot of sense,&#8221; Desrosiers said. &#8220;Also, the number of contributors that focus on the tickets within the Bundled Themes component is usually very low unless these compatibility issues are being addressed.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>A dev note to accompany these updates to the legacy default themes was <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/themes/2022/07/28/using-locally-hosted-google-fonts-in-themes/\">published</a> to WordPress.org. It contains code examples for serving a new stylesheet from the theme directory, fixing the editor style within a custom theme-setup function, removing the font stylesheet, and including a custom set of fonts in a child theme. This change particularly impacts those who have edited or removed the font stylesheet in a child theme of these default themes or a plugin. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>WordPress&#8217; Themes Team has strongly <a href=\"https://wptavern.com/wordpress-org-strongly-urges-theme-authors-to-switch-to-locally-hosted-webfonts\">urged theme authors to switch to locally hosted webfonts</a>, and is expected to officially ban remotely hosted fonts following WordPress&#8217; legacy default themes getting updated. </p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 07 Mar 2023 03:19:52 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"Sarah Gooding\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:32;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:56:\"WPTavern: WordPress 6.2 Product Demo Video Now Available\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:30:\"https://wptavern.com/?p=142476\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:67:\"https://wptavern.com/wordpress-6-2-product-demo-video-now-available\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:2334:\"<img />\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re not yet excited about the upcoming WordPress 6.2 release, you will be after watching the new <a href=\"https://wordpress.tv/2023/03/03/6-2-live-product-demo/\">live demo product video</a> that was recorded last week. The demo was presented by Anne McCarthy and Rich Tabor, and moderated by Nathan Wrigley.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The team used a beautifully customized version of the default Twenty Twenty-Three theme, which showcases what is possible in 6.2 with just core blocks and themes. They started from the Site Editor view, demonstrating how easy it is  to zip around from pages to templates and template parts with the new browse mode. This mode also features a resizeable pane that previews the site at different viewports.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>WordPress 6.2 is light years ahead in terms of its progression as a design tool. The team gave a short introduction to pushing styles globally, as well as the ability to copy and paste styles. The features make it much easier to make changes across the site, instead of having to apply them separately to each block. They also gave a tour of the Style Book, which is helpful for quickly making global changes to blocks with a preview. Tabor noted how users could actually use that screen to design the entire site.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Other features covered in the live demo include the new sticky positioning for top-level group blocks,  a tour of the new navigation and dedicated list view, distraction-free mode, and the improved pattern and media panel, which reduces the number of steps for exploring patterns and adding images. At the end, the presenters took questions from viewers, many of which cover what is and what isn&#8217;t currently possible with the Site Editor.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>WordPress 6.2 is expected on March 28, 2023, less than four weeks away. <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/06/wordpress-6-2-rc1-postponed-additional-beta-5-added/\">RC 1 has been delayed</a> due to <a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/archives/C04JZ199XPG/p1677992725823369\">a regression which impacts the Site Editor.</a> An additional Beta 5 is expected on March 7 to text a fix for this issue. In the meantime, the live demo video is a good way to familiarize yourself with all the major features coming in the next release. </p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n\n</div>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 06 Mar 2023 23:06:19 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"Sarah Gooding\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:33;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:46:\"WordPress.org blog: Your WordPress 6.2 Preview\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=14573\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:62:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2023/03/your-wordpress-6-2-preview/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:66925:\"<p>On March 2, release squad members <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/annezazu/\">Anne McCarthy</a> and <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/richtabor/\">Rich Tabor</a> presented a live product demo of all the delights coming in WordPress 6.2, set to release on March 28, 2023.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>A first-of-its-kind event in the world of WordPress releases, the showcase was moderated by fellow community member <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/njwrigley/\">Nathan Wrigley</a> and joined by nearly 90 participants.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>During the demo, Anne and Rich highlighted some of the new features and enhancements that will continue to revolutionize the way you interact with WordPress. They gave a quick tour of the Site Editor’s refreshed interface, which lets you browse and preview templates before editing. They also covered all the new and highly anticipated ways to manage styles, as well as improvements to the Navigation block, new collections of header and footer patterns, the new distraction-free mode for focusing on writing, and plenty more.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It was a jam-packed hour that sparked plenty of excitement—and a lively question and answer session that wrapped up the event on a high note. The presenters weren&#8217;t able to answer all the questions that were posed so they were <a href=\"https://a8c.slack.com/archives/C04S7RYK0F3/p1678330454722129?thread_ts=1678330090.320659&cid=C04S7RYK0F3\">collected and answered in a follow-up post</a> on <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/\">Make.Wordpress.org/Core</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Watch the recording of the live demo in case you missed it, or want to relive the moment (and the funky fresh demo site designed by Rich). You can find a full transcript of the live demo below.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Referenced Resources</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/02/2https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/02/21/6-2-live-product-demo/%201/6-2-live-product-demo/\">Live demo announcement</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/02/06/roadmap-to-6-2/\">6.2 release roadmap</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/02/04/phase-2-finale/\">Wrapping Phase 2 of the Gutenberg project</a><strong>&nbsp;</strong></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2023/02/wordpress-6-2-beta-1/\">6.2 release enters Beta 1</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/01/wordpress-6-2-beta-4/\">Beta 4 and the latest call for testing</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/47043\">Fixed/sticky positioning GitHub issue</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/\">Learn WordPress</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>FSE theme developers on Twitch: <a href=\"https://www.twitch.tv/daisyonwp\">daisyonwp</a> and <a href=\"https://www.twitch.tv/ryanwelchercodes\">ryanwelchercodes</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2023/02/intrinsic-design-theming-and-rethinking-how-to-design-with-wordpress/\">Intrinsic design, theming, and rethinking how to design with WordPress</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://github.com/annezazu\">Anne McCarthy on GitHub</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Learn WP workshop: <a href=\"https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/291813021/?isFirstPublish=true\">How to create a website on mobile</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Props to <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/cbringmann/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>cbringmann</a> and <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/laurlittle/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>laurlittle</a> for co-authoring and editing this post, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/evarlese/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>evarlese</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/courtneypk/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>courtneypk</a>, and <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mysweetcate/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>mysweetcate</a> for captioning, and <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/robinwpdeveloper/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>robinwpdeveloper</a> for uploading the recording files to wordpress.tv.</em></p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Transcript</h2>\n\n\n\n<span id=\"more-14573\"></span>\n\n\n\n<pre class=\"wp-block-preformatted\"><strong>Nathan Wrigley </strong>0:22  <strong>\n</strong>How are we doing? Should we go for it?\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy  </strong>0:24  <strong>\n</strong>I think we can start.\n\n<strong>Nathan Wrigley </strong> 0:26<strong> \n</strong>Why not? The recording has started. So let\'s get, let\'s get cracking.\n\nHello, welcome everybody to the WP 6.2 Live Demo outline. I\'m Nathan Wrigley. I do a few things around the WordPress community, mainly to do with video and podcasting and things like that. But it\'s not about me.\n\nToday, we\'ve got two fabulous guests. We\'ve got Anne McCarthy and Rich Tabor, and they\'re going to do a full on Product Demo. It\'s a little bit unlike things that you may have seen, because in the more recent past, lots of new features have been added. And so Rich, and Anne are going to spend the time on the screen in a moment, and they\'re going to show you all of the bits and pieces that you may find dropping into a WordPress install near you. Let\'s hope. There\'s been a lot that\'s been happening, so there really will be probably 20 or 30 minutes of live demos, so look forward to that. I\'ve got to get them to introduce themselves in a couple of moments.\n\nJust before that, though, a little bit of housekeeping. This is going to be recorded, so if you have to drop out halfway through and go elsewhere, completely fine. It\'s going to be posted at the Make/Core website, but it will also come fully complete with a transcript as well. So, if that\'s something that you\'re looking for, that will all be there. Also to say that if you want to post any questions, we\'d love that. In fact, there\'s a whole portion at the end when Rich and Anne have finished speaking, where we\'re going to field questions toward them. Now there\'s really two places to do that. If you\'re live with us on Zoom, then if you hit the Q&amp;A button at the bottom of the screen and post your questions in there, I guess specifity... specific... Whatever that word is, be specific. Help us out. Tell us exactly what you want to know and we\'ll get the questions to them. The other way to do that is to go into Slack. And there is a channel in there, #walkthrough. And if you want to post any questions in there as well, that would be great. So yeah, just to recap, Q&amp;A button if you\'re in Zoom, and use the Slack #walkthrough channel, if you are in the Making WordPress Slack. Okay, right. I think we\'ll take you guys one at a time if that\'s alright. First off a little bit of an introduction from both of you. Let\'s begin with with Anne McCarthy, shall we? Hello, Anne!\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy  </strong>2:42<strong>\n</strong>Hello, hello. It\'s so good to be back on literally any sort of live stream with you.\n\nI appreciate that you\'re a part of this\n\n<strong>Nathan Wrigley </strong> 2:48<strong> \n</strong>Yeah, that\'s really nice.\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy  </strong>2:49<strong>\n</strong>Well, I\'m Anne McCarthy. I\'m a product wrangler at Automattic. I live in Seattle. I also run the FSE Outreach Program, which is basically dedicated to testing all the latest and greatest of WordPress, which is part of why I\'m so excited to be part of this demo, is because so much neat stuff has come through this that I\'ve had the privilege of going through a little bit early on with the ever growing calls for testing. So that\'s a little bit about me, I\'ll pop it over to Rich.\n\n<strong>Nathan Wrigley  </strong>3:17<strong>\n</strong>Yeah. So Rich, if you want to take the baton there.\n\n<strong>Rich Tabor  </strong>3:21<strong>\n</strong>Yeah. Hey, everyone. I\'m Rich Tabor. I\'m a product manager at Automattic. And I work on WordPress and Gutenberg, in particular. From a little bit south of Atlanta, Georgia, in the US, and been building and tinkering with WordPress for I think, close to 11 years now. So it\'s, it\'s been a good run, and I\'m super stoked about where things are heading.\n\n<strong>Nathan Wrigley  </strong>3:43<strong>\n</strong>Yeah, and things definitely have been moving in a very much a forward direction, WordPress, 6.1. And WordPress 6.2. There\'s so much clear blue sky between the two of them. I think probably the best thing at this point is if we can have it, I don\'t know what whose screen is coming on. I think it might be Rich\'s, or maybe it\'s Anne\'s, I don\'t know.\n\n<strong>Rich Tabor  </strong>4:00<strong>\n</strong>Yeah.\n\n<strong>Nathan Wrigley  </strong>4:01<strong>\n</strong>If we can get that screen shared, then I will slide my way out of this call and say, Rich and Anne, it\'s... it\'s over to you. I\'ll be back soon as you\'re finished for any Q&amp;As.\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy  </strong>4:14<strong>\n</strong>Awesome. Thank you.\n\n<strong>Rich Tabor  </strong>4:17<strong>\n</strong>Alright, everybody can see my screen right now?\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy  </strong>4:19 <strong>\n</strong>Yes. Rich did an excellent job designing this. I do want to call this out that I love, absolutely love this.\n\n<strong>Rich Tabor  </strong>4:26<strong>\n</strong>Thanks, Anne. Yeah, this is actually running Twenty Twenty-Three. So it\'s kind of showcasing some of the things you can do just with the core theme. And some of the design tooling that we are, that has been built into 6.2. So this view here is the site editor. So I\'m going to orient you here. There\'s one big change here in particular, I want to call out visually, is this idea of the frame here on the right, and this will pull up the local template. So I\'m looking at my homepage of the site right now. If I navigate into other templates, I can pull those up here on the right as well. And then you can also navigate template parts. So this part\'s not very new to 6.2. But the idea of zooming in on different template parts and templates and having them appear here in the frame is. And that\'s important because of this concept of browse mode. And this is where you could dive into an actual page from the site editor. So here, I just pulled up the about page of the site, and I can click into it and actually start making changes. Now, the changes here within the post content block are going to be relative to this about page. But I can also modify the template which then changes the about, or changes the page on any instance of this particular template. So it\'s a new concept and how we can browse the site. But it\'s a very powerful, and really the first iteration of that way of managing a site.\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy  </strong>5:50<strong>\n</strong>And also lightly introduced content editing in the site editor, as you mentioned. So it\'s a kind of a neat merging of the two worlds, which I know folks have long been wanting to see that unified. And same with the frame, it kind of adds a nice layer where instead of just being dropped in, like before, you kind of are given a more zoomed out view, which I think helps address a lot of the feedback that we saw around the orientation when you\'re entering the site editor.\n\n<strong>Rich Tabor  </strong>6:12 <strong>\n</strong>Yeah, exactly. And really, if we think a little bit further out than 6.2, this could also house setting to use. So we do have, you know, one view here that that is relative to 6.1, where you can see all of your different templates. But imagine if we had any other different types of settings and controls and different pages loaded within here, doesn\'t have to be just the front end templates and renders of your site.\n\nAlright, so we\'re gonna dive into this here. So you can go into it just by clicking on the frame. I\'ll do that one more time just to show, you just click on it. And now you entered right into it. You can edit it right off, so we can make changes, just as if we zoomed into it in the other way in 6.1. And then we have a bunch of styling tools that have been added to 6.2, so I want to kind of hone in on these. Like, this panel itself is not new. We have style variations, you can zoom in here, we\'ve got this new zoomed out view, where you can apply different ones at a time. And then we also have this icon here, which triggers the style book. Now the style book is a very interesting tool here that really lets you customize the theme\'s style guide, essentially. So I can go through each of these tabs, which are relative to the block categories, and see all of the blocks loaded on this particular site. So right here, I\'ve got like Button blocks and Columns block and whatnot. So if I click on one of these, it\'ll pull up the Style panel of that particular block. And then when I make changes over here, these are applied globally throughout my entire site. So if I want to change the way this button looks, let\'s say we do some smaller tags, maybe we\'ll add a little bit of letter spacing, and maybe make it capitalized. See, it\'s getting applied everywhere that the button is used. Also do some changes here to padding, perhaps. We\'ll do something custom here. I think that looks nice. And now...\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy </strong> 8:13\nReal quick while you\'re doing this, I wanted to note that like this is something that folks have really struggled with previously with the site editor, where if you\'re editing a block that isn\'t in the template already, you\'re not able to see this. So as Rich is showing, you can actually look at any block that\'s being used in your theme and see how the change that you\'re making in styles will impact that. Where before, if the block wasn\'t present in that template that you were editing, it was hard to know exactly what was happening. And so now you have both the style book and this inline preview that you see in the Style section to rely upon, which is pretty neat.\n\n<strong>Rich Tabor</strong>  8:43\nYeah, exactly. And really, you could theoretically go in and design your entire theme with the style book. Now, I know there\'s some advantage to design in context of pages and whatnot. And I\'ll go into that in a bit. But the idea is that you really can quickly browse through all of the different blocks and tighten up what you want to within these controls. And it\'s not limited to the standard variation as well. There\'s also these style variations of each block that you can now manipulate as well. So we\'re gonna go in, say, we\'ll change the radius of this one. So we want it to be sharp like our other button. But we have these new controls. Like, this is a shadow control we\'ve added in 6.2, where you can apply, say, like this shadow here might be nice. This one here, and so some fallback shadows, within core that a theme can provide as well, its own values. But this now will apply for every single variation of the outline on my site here.\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy  </strong>9:39 \nAnd you\'ll notice that it\'s not in the style book right now. And that\'s just part of the future feature development is showing the variations of blocks as well.\n\n<strong>Rich Tabor </strong> 9:47\nExactly, yes, I would imagine that this would this would show up the variations of the button block, yeah. Which is a nice way to really customize these, like it used to be only CSS would be used to manipulate these variations here. And now it kind of abstracts that away and you can do it within the editing experience. That\'s really nice. It really is. There\'s also this idea of block CSS, so you can add custom CSS that is scoped to a particular block. So if I add CSS here, it\'ll be applied for the button block wherever it\'s used. Now, I wouldn\'t recommend using additional CSS in most cases. I would, I would suggest using all the different controls that we\'ve built, that are built into 6.2. But the idea of using CSS to add a little pizzazz to this particular button block is fine. But just with that caveat that you wouldn\'t want to use it exclusively. Like I wouldn\'t apply a background color via CSS, I would rather use the background elements color here. There\'s also additional CSS, which emulates what was previously in the customizer. So we do have site wide CSS that can be applied within the site editor and also on the front end of your site. Again, I wouldn\'t emphasize using this exclusively, as there are a lot of new design tools that I would explore first, from the top level styles here where you can apply colors to the background, text and buttons. But if there was anything extra you wanted to add, you could do so within the stylesheet here.\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy </strong> 11:21\nAnd I\'ll note we\'d love to hear feedback if there are certain things that you\'re repeatedly adding custom CSS for. So either commenting on a currently open issue, or if you don\'t find one, opening an issue would be super helpful, because it\'s neat to see what folks are using for CSS so we can fill those gaps.\n\n<strong>Rich Tabor </strong> 11:36\nYeah, exactly. So that\'s the global Style panel here. But there are some quite a few other improvements along with styling. So the first is the idea of pushing styles globally. So if I\'m in here, and I\'m designing, let\'s say I want to add a radius, I want to do some different typography as to appearance like this, like bold, italic look. And then we\'ll also...\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy  </strong>12:07\nThat\'s cool.\n\n<strong>Rich Tabor  </strong>12:07\nThanks. Also, let me make the letter spacing, maybe we\'ll make it a little bit bigger, actually, and then, I think that\'ll work. Do these changes here and see I\'ve just styled this one particular block this button up here. And this button down here is still using the global styles that we designed earlier. But now I can go through my settings panel here and hit Apply globally. And I\'m going to here so we can see that happen. The styles are now pushed globally to all the other blocks. So this is really helpful for when you\'re designing in flow. And you don\'t necessarily want to abstract out into the style book and you want to push your changes that you just did here, because you like the way the button looks and want those applied everywhere, all at once. I think this is really powerful way to to quickly design within the editor. Another tool that is quite useful, I\'m going to take this heading here and manipulate this. It\'s the idea of copying and pasting styling. So we\'re going to use that same bold italic look, maybe we\'ll make that a little smaller, we can even manipulate this size to be a little bigger. Now we go here to copy styles. And then I can come all the way down here to this other heading that\'s very similar, and paste it in. And there we have that style applied just to these two headers. And you would do this when you don\'t necessarily want every single heading to have this effect. But perhaps there are like elements on this page that you want to push those changes to, specifically. So copying and pasting allows you to be very granular, whereas applying styling globally, lets you be more of a holistic design experience for pushing styles. Another neat...\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy  </strong>13:57 \nOh, real quick, I just wanted to know like I think one of the things that\'s interesting is, as we\'ve added more design options to blocks like this is part of the experience of scaling things and making it easier to use. So when we think about like intuitive and delightful. Some of these tools coming into 6.2 really take you know, the tons of design tools that we\'ve added over the last couple releases and makes it easy so you can actually tweak things and then reuse. So I think that\'s one of the things I want to call out is it\'s kind of this crescendo. Where now the tools that are coming to 6.2 to really ease the experience and allow you to do a lot of neat stuff where rather than having to re-tweak everything through every single heading block. A lot of stuff is used. So...\n\n<strong>Rich Tabor  </strong>14:34\nYeah, exactly. WordPress is moving towards a design tool and less of like, what you see is what you can only have. It\'s more of an expression of creativity and it really does open up the doors for for designing beautiful pages on the web. I think it\'s really powerful.\n\nAnother cool bit that we\'ve added is the idea of sticky positioning. So headers would be nice sometimes if they stick to the top, so for top level group blocks, this is a group block here, there\'s this new position attribute where you can assign it to sticky. And as you can see, right in the editor, it\'s already showing me that this is sticky on the front end. And also here as well. It\'s only available for top level blocks for now, there\'s still some some odd stuff to figure out on how we communicate when something is not going to stick due to the the parent height of the elements around it. But for top level, it\'s still fine. So we have it here. But there are some iterations that are already happening for the next release that will kind of bring this into more, bring some more capabilities to this particular feature.\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy  </strong>15:44 \nYeah, and I\'m very excited because one of the things I wanted to briefly call out was the how the header, the template part has that purple. So another neat thing coming to this release, that was a big part of feedback for the outreach program was having to look parts and reusable blocks having a different coloring, because there are different kinds of blocks are synced across the site, when you make little changes and impacts everything everywhere. So that\'s another neat thing that\'s coming with this release, is that you can kind of see those a bit differently in the List view as well as when you\'re in the editor. I see Nathan has his hand raised. Is that intentional? Oh, it\'s removed. Okay.\n\n<strong>Nathan Wrigley </strong> 16:23 \nIt was not intentional. That\'s my mistake. I\'m sorry.\n\n<strong>Rich Tabor </strong> 16:28 \nYeah, it helps you see quickly too like, what is the template part, particularly for headers and footers, it makes it easier to browse quickly.\n\nSo speaking of template parts, and patterns in particular, so headers and footers, are new patterns added within WordPress 6.2. And now that they\'re loaded, actually from the pattern directory, which is kind of neat. And I\'m going to show you how to replace a footer with one of those other patterns. So if you have your footer template parts selected, you can go to replace footer. Now this flow is not new to 6.2, but it\'s going to call out these other improvements. And then you just click one there, and you have it loaded here, that\'s the site logo that I\'m using up here as well. And you can modify this text without having to do any any funky PHP filters or moving actual templates. And if you want to change it again, you go back to replace say, let\'s pick this other one, let\'s try this one. It\'s kind of nice. And there\'s this focus view, or you can zoom in to just the footer itself. You can even check the responsiveness of it and see how it, how it reacts on mobile, and make any of your changes here and have those persist over to the actual template whenever you close it out. It\'s a nice way to really kind of clean up the editing experience. So you\'re not seeing this entire group of groups and instead kind of focusing on what you\'re actually wanting to complete. You can do the same for the header as well.\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy  </strong>18:01\nYeah, and as Rich mentioned, there are some new patterns that are being bundled from the directory, which I think are really extensive. Regardless of what theme you\'re using, there\'s going to be some pattern for group patterns that help democratize design where you can use them in anything.\n\n<strong>Rich Tabor  </strong>18:15\nYes, that\'s right. All right. So navigation. Navigation has gone under a... quite a bit of work in the last a couple of months. And really, this is all about trying to make it easier to manage your site\'s navigation and also add pages and links and then even styling. So there\'s this new dedicated list view for the navigation block. So it\'s essentially emulating a little bit of what\'s available over here except for you had to kind of get down to it. Now it brings it top of mine and the surface area here. You can drag them around, move them up and down, even add submenu links and remove them as well. And then you can style it like normal. And now apply different styles via the styles tab to the block itself, or even individual page links and whatnot, you can dive into them and manage them all from here, instead of having to only manage them from up here. This really kind of abstracts the complexity from from this particular canvas interface into a more familiar interface here on the sidebar. It\'s really a great effort. And it\'s it\'s taken some time to refine but it\'s getting there and it\'s feels a lot nicer.\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy  </strong>19:30 \nYeah, there\'s been a lot of good feedback about this as well just because it kind of is meant to marry the classic experience with bringing blocks into it. So it is in addition to being edit, editing on canvas, so if you really want to continue to edit as a block you still, you can continue to do that. But it does add a nice interface and the block settings where you\'re able to do it. And I\'ll briefly call out here the split settings, which we\'ll probably talk about later. But you\'ll see here for more complex blocks, there\'s some nice split settings making it a little bit easier, more intuitive to go through.\n\n<strong>Rich Tabor </strong> 20:02\nYeah, that\'s right. And if you take a look at navigation here, this is very similar to this component added here. And, and that\'s, that\'s purposeful, we want it to look and feel familiar. Either way you\'re managing navigation. So you can also add some menu items here, remove them and drag them around and reset them here, as well as browse into the individual pages. So that\'s what I have for the site editor portion of the demo. And did you have anything else you wanted to add to this, Anne?\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy  </strong>20:37\nOh, could you resize the Browse mode for me? I just love the resizing. I think it\'s kind of cool. This is just like a fun, you know, thing to call out. But maybe you won\'t noticem but you can resize it. So as you\'re quickly going through your site, if you want to see how it looks in different ways, you can also do that. So that\'s the final thing I\'ll shout out.\n\n<strong>Rich Tabor  </strong>20:56\nYeah. So then, yeah, exactly. It\'s... there\'s a lot of fine, fine touches like that. Well, we can\'t obviously can\'t call them all out today. But it is really getting tightened up overall as an admin experience for the site.\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy  </strong>21:12\nIt\'s such a great foundation in the future, for sure.\n\n<strong>Rich Tabor </strong> 21:15\nExactly, exactly. Alright, so if we press this back button here, it goes right back to the dashboard, I\'m gonna go and leave...\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy </strong> 21:25\nThat back button was a big piece of feedback people had they would get into the site or not know how to get back out. So I appreciate you calling that out.\n\n<strong>Rich Tabor  </strong>21:32\nYeah, exactly. It\'s been through a number of iterations. And I think we\'ve settled on something that feels feels nice; it does feel nice.\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy  </strong>21:41\nI agree.\n\n<strong>Rich Tabor  </strong>21:43\nSo...\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy  </strong>21:44\nAh yes, the removal of the beta label.\n\n<strong>Rich Tabor  </strong>21:46\nYou want to talk to this, Anne?\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy  </strong>21:48\nYeah, I would love to jump in on this actually. So you\'ll notice that the beta label is removed for this release. And part of why we wanted to show it now is to see how all the features, how the experience has changed, how much more you can do. And all of that has led to the removal of the beta label. And that doesn\'t mean that feature development is done that it\'s like, you know, gonna stay this way forever, it just means it\'s in a place where we invite you all to try to the site editor, it is out of beta. And a lot of development work has gone into testing this. So we\'ve had almost, I think, 20 calls for testing with the outreach program. It\'s been through multiple major WordPress release cycles, there is still more work to be done. But I\'m very excited to see the beta label removed, I think the features that are coming to 6.2. And the foundation that is set with 6.2 really marks a level of maturity. That is pretty exciting. So consider this an invitation to try out modern WordPress, and to check it out.\n\n<strong>Rich Tabor</strong>  22:43\nA hundred percent, I couldn\'t have said it better.\n\nAlright, so another neat part that\'s added recently for 6.2 is this idea of distraction free mode. So it\'s not turned on by default, but I have it on so we can see the results here. So you can go in and type right here. And then actually, I\'m gonna throw in some Lorem here. So you can see it in action. So this feels more like a text editor and less like a Block Editor. Whenever distraction free mode is on even the the multi block selection, it feels really nice. It doesn\'t there\'s not this idea of blocks, even it\'s kind of abstracted from here, there\'s less noise, there\'s less distraction. And just think that the idea is that it\'s just you and your words, it\'s just writing and publishing. And if you want to publish, you can hover over here, you\'ll see the toolbar come down, you can hit Publish or draft. And then this is how you would turn it off and back on here. And then you still have control of all the existing tool. And it\'s just a much simpler, streamlined interface. And you do have access to blocks, you can still add them if you\'d like to, but the idea is just being able to write without the distractions is really powerful. And a really nice publishing experience overall.\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy  </strong>24:08 \nAnd this is for everyone. So this is like a lot of stuff we\'re coming to say it or using a block theme. This is available for anyone who\'s using the Block Editor. And to be honest, I use this for basically all my writing now. Especially for any post or page, I typically will go into this mode. So I\'m very excited about this. And I hope folks feel the same way.\n\n<strong>Rich Tabor  </strong>24:28\nYeah, exactly. I\'ve been using that too for quite a bit. But the thing is, is also not only for post editing, so I have a page here that I\'ve created. And I have distraction free mode turned on, which kind of removes all the extraneous tooling and it really lets me focus in on the actual blocks here so I can manipulate them to an extent. I can even drop in different imagery for these images here and modify the buttons and whatnot and even add more blocks but the idea is it\'s almost like a simplified editing experience for pages as well, not only for posts. And here, I\'ll come up here and turn off distraction free mode to see it all in real time.\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy  </strong>25:13  \nAnd this isn\'t yet available for the site editor, but I have a feeling a number of folks are going to be keen to see that put in there as well.\n\n<strong>Rich Tabor </strong> 25:20  \nExactly, yeah, I don\'t see why it wouldn\'t work in the site editor as well. I think it\'d be very nice. Yeah. So we have some other improvements here that are fun. So this inserter here has gotten a couple of changes here. So blocks looks familiar, it\'s still the same, but patterns is where we started seeing some changes. Instead of having some featured patterns loaded in a block category selector, we\'ve split them out individually as their categories here, you\'re gonna load up some of the different header patterns that are loaded in WordPress 6.2. So you can load them here and see them in this tray, and then click to add them to your site. Which is really nice, it\'s a nice way to kind of go through them quickly and see a bunch of different ones. We also have the media tab up here, which is new, which splits out the images from your Media Library, videos, and audio as well, including the Openverse library. So this is a catalogue of, I believe, over 600 million free, openly licensed stock imagery. And you could search from right here in the inserter. So let\'s type in birds. And click on one, and it will add an image block with the image already added to it, we have got the caption down here. If you don\'t want the caption, you just turn it off right here, this little control that was added. And now you can manipulate it right off. So let\'s say this, drop it into here. Maybe we\'ll make these about the same size and move it over to something interesting.\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy  </strong>26:53\nAnd I\'ll note that there was a GDPR concern around the images being properly uploaded rather than hotlinked. And I wanted to just note that that\'s been addressed. So the images are uploaded to your Media Library. That\'s why. So in case anyone has that question. Sorry, continue.\n\n<strong>Rich Tabor  </strong>27:08\nYeah, no, that\'s a good point. It\'s very important. A key benefit to have this flow here is that instead of instead of having to add an image block, and then open your Media Library, and then pick an image, and then you have it here, it\'s really this one flow of searching visually, and searching here, as well. And then having it added as an image block already. So it kind of skipping all the extra steps that you always have to do anyhow, it\'s really nice. And we have a couple of interface changes. So there\'s the settings icon up here that used to be a cog, and now it represents the sidebar itself. So when you open it, the sidebar is triggered, if that\'s closed. And that\'s changed for a couple of reasons. But one of the bigger reasons is, as I mentioned earlier, this idea of split tabs, so we have the cog for settings. And that\'s when a block has additional settings that are not per the norm of the styles that are available within WordPress, then you\'ll have a new settings tab pulled out here. And that\'s to keep the density nice whenever you\'re editing and it feels good instead of having everything kind of in your face all at once. Now for other blocks, like the paragraph block, there\'s not additional settings, so automatically not included. The tabs up top and just be everything top level. But  when a third party plugin adds like a different settings panel, or even if you extend one of these core blocks that does not have one, and a detects one should be auto added as well. So it\'s kind of just like a nice, fluid way to continue improving the experience of editing within WordPress.\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy </strong> 28:49\nYeah, so plugin authors can also kind of make sure where they want settings and styles to show that it shows up correctly. And there\'s a dev note about that as well.\n\n<strong>Rich Tabor  </strong>28:58\nYes, that\'s right, you can you can decide as when you\'re extending or adding your own inspector controls. That\'s what these are called here, whether or not they\'re included within styles or settings as well. Yeah.\n\nThen another smaller change that\'s kind of nice is this idea of pulling the outline from its own toolbar item up here into the list view. It\'s because they\'re very relative, you know, a list of all the blocks on your page, also an outline of what\'s going on. So they\'re combined now into this one view. We also have time to read word count and character count here, which is nice. And then this is a little guide here that just helps you understand the structure of the importance of the structure of the document and making sure that it is properly structured. All right, was there anything else that we wanted to add you think, Anne?\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy  </strong>29:51\nI\'ll add one last call out just because I\'m trying to think about like little dev tidbits if you want to disable it prefers there is a way to disable Openverse as well I know that\'s always a concern. We add something it\'s like, okay, how do we get rid of because I don\'t want a client getting into it, there is a way to disable that is documented as well. The other thing is the pattern. So there\'s new categories, the patterns. And so query is now posts, a couple of things were merged, there\'s no call to action. And there\'s also some lovely, which I\'m gonna brag on Rich, again, some new text based, query patterns. We have a lot of visual patterns for the query loop, and now there\'s wonderful, more text focused ones, which I think is really exciting. And just another great way where patterns have evolved and patterns is obviously a huge part of the future building with WordPress. So I\'m very excited about those and keen to see just more variation with query loop, I think it\'s really powerful block to make easier to use. So I\'m excited to see it. Otherwise, I think that\'s, I think that covers a lot of what we were trying to go through.\n\n<strong>Rich Tabor </strong> 30:57\nYeah, and there\'s certainly more. There\'s a lot of interesting, minute details that are, you know, quality of life improvements around editing and designing. And we can\'t cover them all today. But it\'s just, there\'s a lot of exploratory ideas and cool, interesting pieces that have been the result of lots of feedback and lots of testing, like I mentioned earlier. And, you know, it\'s really a testament to open source and contributing and really working together as a team to make this thing we call WordPress ours and making it a brilliant publishing experience. So just thank you to everyone who\'s put in time ideas, effort, code, design, marketing, copy, all of that, and more to making this what it is. It wouldn\'t be possible without you.\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy  </strong>31:46\nTotally agree. And thank you, Rich, for doing such an excellent job building this site and demoing all this.\n\n<strong>Nathan Wrigley  </strong>31:51  \nYeah, indeed. Thank you, Rich. Thank you, Anne. Just to let you know that, in theory, there\'s possibly up to about 25 minutes left. If anybody wishes to pose a question, we\'re going to do our best to get the answer directly from Rich and Anne. Whether that means putting the screen back on, I don\'t really know. But we\'ve got a few that have come in. The place to put those, it would appear that some people have figured out how to do that in Zoom. But if you go to the walkthrough channel, in the making WordPress Slack, you can post some questions in there and all things being equal, we\'ll get them raised as quickly as we can. So we\'ve got a few. In all honesty, because they\'ve been copied and pasted from various different places, I can\'t necessarily say who the name of the person is that sent them. But first question I\'ve got over here for either of you. It says when you save globally, under the Advanced tab, does this change the stylesheet? Interesting.\n\n<strong>Rich Tabor  </strong>32:54 \nSo this will change the attributes of the blocks. So if I throw in that example, there, I pushed the attributes of that one block globally. So they\'re applied to every block. So it does affect some styles, but not writing any style sheet or writing to the core style sheets.\n\n<strong>Nathan Wrigley  </strong>33:11\nCan I ask the question? It\'s not something that\'s been submitted by anybody else, but it just occurred to me that as you were clicking the global button, I just wondered if there was a \"get out\" from there. In other words, if you inadvertently click the global button, is there an undo option in there? In other words, can you back away from all of the buttons suddenly changing or all of the H1s? \n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy  </strong>33:32 \nYou do have to hit save after. You can\'t just hit Apply globally. You have to hit save, and that\'s where the multi-entity saving pops up. The multi-entity saving is kind of strange in that it\'s not good at discarding changes. So you basically would just have to like leave. Like it would be like, Whoops, I hit that. You probably also have to hit the undo. Like there\'s - those are the two kind of options. So, yeah.\n\n<strong>Rich Tabor </strong> 33:54 \nYeah. The undo is like a global thing. It works there as well. Yes.\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy</strong>  33:58 \nAnd there\'s a reason that feature is hidden, like under Advanced and collapsed. That\'s not necessarily for everyone. But for folks who do like to tinker, it is available.\n\n<strong>Rich Tabor  </strong>34:08  \nRight. And it\'s also only available in the site editor as well. So it\'s the more the global view of editing your site is where you can access that. \n\n<strong>Nathan Wrigley  </strong>34:17  \nPerfect.\n\nOkay, so I have a question from Zoom. Is copying and pasting styles as demonstrated just for core blocks? They go on to say more, which I\'ll read out. Some blocks collect, some block collections have their own C&amp;P, and I\'m curious what might carry over, if anything? And then there\'s a follow up. Also, if CSS classes are assigned to a block, will applying global styles to a block be to all of the same block, i.e. H2? Or, hopefully, will a custom class allow for a more granular global CSS? There\'s a lot in that question, but if we start with the: is copying and pasting styles demonstrated just for core blocks?\n\n<strong>Rich Tabor  </strong>34:56  \nSo it works for blocks that have leveraged the block support system within core. So if you have opted your block into using background color, and text color, link color, any of the layout settings, anything that was in the styles tab, then all of those would get pushed to or get copied or pasted or even pushed to the global application of styles as well. Now, if there\'s, if a block has done its own sort of background color attributes, I don\'t know that those would persist as well. But if you use what\'s available in core, it\'s really one or two lines of JSON will get you the background color support that you need. \n\n<strong>Nathan Wrigley</strong>  35:35\nAnything to add to that, Anne?\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy  </strong>35:37  \nNo, just another reason to rely on what core is building. So it\'s a another great example of how these features will work together and how adoption helps whenever these new things come out.\n\n<strong>Nathan Wrigley  </strong>35:49  \nOkay, so we\'ll go on to the next question then. So this is from Zoom, and apologies, I don\'t know your name. Can we have this as a feature request? Can we have sticky sidebar block for some groups next release, please? \n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy </strong> 36:05 \nProbably would do a separate block, I\'m guessing. Yeah, do you have anything to add to that?\n\n<strong>Rich Tabor</strong>  36:11\nYeah, I would say we wouldn\'t need a sticky sidebar block. Right now that group lock in top level-only does support position sticky. And the only reason it was turned off like we did have it on for one of the Gutenberg releases for everything - for every group block - but it was turned off just because there was too much confusion around if you had a sticky element that wasn\'t didn\'t have enough space to stick for and enough height to stick. So it wouldn\'t actually be sticking. You wouldn\'t see a result of you applying a sticky position to it. So I think we can figure that out with some some UX to really clean that experience up so that you do expect and understand what\'s going on. When you apply that to a block. That\'s not the root level of the document. So it\'ll be there. It just takes a little bit more iteration.\n\n<strong>Nathan Wrigley</strong>  37:00\nOkay, another question. This time from Slack. When there are changes made in the site editor, are the templates still marked with the blue dots to indicate that the changes are in the database?\n\n<strong>Rich Tabor  </strong>37:14\nYes, from that Manage Templates view that I shared in the canvas, it will show up just like it did previously, when there are changes to one of the templates provided by the theme.\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy </strong> 37:25\nYou can revert the changes, as well, as you\'re used to doing.\n\n<strong>Nathan Wrigley </strong> 37:30\nOkay, thank you. Anne\'s shared a link related to the question that we just posted. I don\'t know how Zoom works well enough to whether or not we can share the screen. \n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy  </strong>37:40\nI can briefly share my screen. \n\n<strong>Nathan Wrigley  </strong>37:42\nYeah, that\'d be great. Show us the GitHub.\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy </strong> 37:43\nLet me try that. I just wanted to mention this in case people want to follow along in the follow up tasks related to this. I love to look at links. I\'m a nerd like that. So in case anyone else is, this is a lot of the follow up tasks and a great issue to chime in on or just follow if you\'re interested in this because there are some improvements to be made. But this is a neat report for now. So it\'s - oh, I just copied and pasted. So it\'s issue number 47043 in the GitHub repo.\n\n<strong>Nathan Wrigley </strong> 38:11\nSo 47043 related to the question that we just had. Okay, so another one from Zoom. This is Robin, who asked the question, can you show? It\'s just moved on my screen. There we go. Can you show us how to trigger the focus mode to view, say, for example, the footer on its own? So I guess we\'re back on the screen again.\n\n<strong>Rich Tabor  </strong>38:34\nSure. Everyone can see? Yep. So when you have a template part selected, you just hit the Edit button here and then it\'s focused into that as well. And then you have, again, the responsive controls here. All the existing controls, it\'s just localized to this template part.\n\n<strong>Nathan Wrigley  </strong>38:54\nHopefully that answers your question. Thank you, Robin. Just for anybody who\'s kind of lurking who has a question but hasn\'t yet posted it, please do. What are the chances that you\'re going to get Rich and Anne on the on the phone in the next few weeks? Pretty minimal, I\'d say, so make use of them while they\'re here. Ellen has done just that. She\'s in Slack. Ellen says, is there a plan to allow no title templates in the block editor as they are still included even in header and footer-only templates?\n\n<strong>Rich Tabor</strong>  39:28\nNo title templates. Like templates without a title? I\'m not quite.\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy </strong> 39:35\nYou can just remove that block. \n\n<strong>Rich Tabor  </strong>39:36\nYeah, you can you can remove the post title block from a template. I\'m not quite sure if that\'s if that\'s what the question is asking.\n\n<strong>Nathan Wrigley  </strong>39:46\nEllen, if you\'re still in Slack and watching this, if you heard Rich and Anne queerying that, then if you can give some more clarity, we\'ll endeavor to get that answered.\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy</strong>  39:57\nKnowing Ellen she knows exactly how to remove things. So I\'m like, I\'m curious. I\'m definitely - we\'re misinterpreting something because she\'s very - Not showing the title in the editor...?\n\n<strong>Nathan Wrigley  </strong>40:07\nYeah. Not showing the title in the editor. She says she\'s here. \n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy  </strong>40:12  \nI\'m like, \"Say more.\" \n\n<strong>Nathan Wrigley </strong> 40:14 \nYeah. Give us more. Give us more Ellen, and we\'ll get right back to you.\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy  </strong>40:17\nLet\'s follow back up on that, because Ellen always has some good questions and good feedback.\n\n<strong>Nathan Wrigley</strong>  40:21\nAll right. We\'ll do just that. Again, another question from Zoom. This is posed by some anonymous person. Will the list views icon get the same treatment as settings?\n\n<strong>Rich Tabor  </strong>40:33\nI don\'t think it\'s in the plans. I don\'t think there are plans to change that. But list view icon, it\'s always the list view. So when you toggle it on and off, it\'s relative to what it is. Whereas on the other side, the settings can be block settings, page settings, template settings. Global styles is in that same area. So it\'s a little bit more context for the list view to stay a list view item.\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy  </strong>40:58\nAnd I know that the question came up because the settings icon looks like there\'s that sidebar. And so there are who people have been asking like, will the same thing happened over here? Just for context. That was part of a discussion in a different GitHub issue.\n\n<strong>Nathan Wrigley </strong> 41:12\nOkay, thank you very much. I appreciate very much those people who are posing questions. That\'s really great. Again, just to prod you once more, feel free to add your own questions in no matter how big or small they are. We\'re here to help. So now we have a question on Zoom from Abdullah. And he coincides beautifully with a question I\'ve written down. Any good resources to learn FSE theme-based development? Can either of you point to a particularly good resource that you know of?\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy  </strong>41:41\nYeah, Learn WordPress. There\'s tons of stuff on Learn WordPress that I would recommend. I also, Daisy Olson, who\'s Developer Relations at Automattic, has a Twitch stream going and some YouTube videos around block theme development. But I would recommend going to Learn WordPress. There\'s also some contributor-led initiatives. Carolina, who\'s one of the theme folks has, I think, it\'s fullsiteediting.com. And that was kind of like the original, go-to resource. And she\'s done an incredible job working on that and keeping it up to date. So yeah, there\'s tons of tons of resources. I will spare you from from sharing more, I don\'t know, Rich, you have more hands-on experience there. What\'s the most helpful for you?\n\n<strong>Rich Tabor</strong>  42:22\nYeah, there\'s some really great tutorials and guides on Learn that are relatively new, that are really helpful. And I see that the team there has been really cranking it out on the last year or two, like really putting a lot of effort into this. So I would, I would start there.\n\n<strong>Nathan Wrigley  </strong>42:38\nSo if you\'re not familiar with that, I guess it would be apropos to say go to your browser of choice and type in learn.wordpress.org and go and explore. Basically, there\'s a ton of materials that are getting updated on what feels like a daily basis at the moment. So, once more, learn.wordpress.org. Go and check that out. But also, Anne in the chat that we\'ve got going on here has linked to Daisy Olsen\'s Twitch channel, which - I\'m just going to read it out but hopefully I\'ll make it into the transcript. twitch.tv/DaisyonWP. And it\'s all one word. D-A-I-S-Y-O-N-W-P. Daisy on WP. So there\'s two great places to go. But the learn.wordpress.org is perfect.\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy </strong> 43:24  \nI have to add one more thing, which is if you\'re not fully ready for block themes, one of the big things that I feel like needs to be emphasized more is you can gradually adopt. So all these features are being done. But maybe you want to only give access to a client to edit the header. You can do that. Maybe you want to leverage theme.json in your classic theme, you can do that. If you want to expose the template editor.\n\nBut use the rest of your themes across them, you can do that. So I want to also encourage folks to look into resources around gradual adoption, because it makes sense that this stuff isn\'t - From day one, there has been a focus on that. Adopt what you what you want, when you want and it\'s going to make sense to different people at different times. Matías once said that to me, and I think it rings really true. And so now that we\'re at this level of maturity, I think we\'re looking again and revisiting again, like okay, what can I use? What do I want to use? I think it\'s really important to mention. So if you\'re not ready to go all in, I encourage you not to just wipe it all away, but to think about how you can gradually adopt and also what would help you gradually adopt. So there is actually a label on GitHub started a couple months ago around - It\'s called blocks adoption. So if there\'s something that you see that you\'re trying to adopt the site editor, and it\'s preventing you from doing so, like we want to know about that. And you\'re welcome - I\'m going to just put this out here - @annezazu is my GitHub username, feel free to just like @ annezazu, \". This is blocking me from using the site editor.\" We want to know these things. Open issues. Please share, because that is also part of the phase of this work is making sure people can adopt as they can and that the tools are robust. There\'s a ton of resources as well. There\'s a page in the Theme Handbook around gradually adopting to block themes. So I just wanted to call that out.\n\n<strong>Nathan Wrigley </strong> 45:06 \nAnd just one more time, what was that? Give us, the give us the username.\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy  </strong>45:11<strong>\n</strong>A-N-N-E-Z-A-Z-U. So like Zazu from The Lion King. It\'s an inside joke from middle school.\n\n<strong>Nathan Wrigley </strong> 45:19\nOkay, possibly the shortest question. This is from Sandy, I should say, Can Lotties be added to 6.2?\n\n<strong>Rich Tabor</strong>  45:28\nI would say that I did a quick search a few minutes ago and there are various blocks built by the community, which do allow you to add or embed LottieFiles to your site. I haven\'t tested any myself but feel free to dig into those. And if they\'re open source, they can contribute ideas or feedback on on those GitHub repos.\n\n<strong>Nathan Wrigley </strong> 45:49\nThank you very much. And Eagle has posted a question. When there are changes made in the site editor, are the templates still marked up - Did we have that one? We have, right? We\'ve done that. \n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy </strong> 46:01\nWe answered that one. Yeah.\n\n<strong>Nathan Wrigley</strong>  46:02\nI think we did. Okay, moving on directly then to Ian, what is - oh! Okay, what is the philosophy for mobile in the editor? Are there any plans to have a mobile view?\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy </strong> 46:16\nThat\'s part of the dragging and resizing. And there\'s a lot of work being done around intrinsic design. And you can see on the developer.wordpress.org? What is the blog? I think it\'s /news. Do you hear audio?\n\n<strong>Nathan Wrigley  </strong>46:35\nI hear only your audio. I don\'t hear anything I don\'t wish.\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy</strong>  46:36\nOkay, sorry. Something just started playing in the background out of nowhere and that just scared me. It\'s like all of a sudden, I was like, woah! Where was I?\n\n<strong>Nathan Wrigley </strong> 46:50\nSo we were talking about mobile views?\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy </strong> 46:53\nYes, intrinsic design. There is a developer blog that if you\'re not following that, you definitely should, that addresses this around, basically showing that the mobile view points have exploded over time. It\'s now really not sustainable to try and have CSS and all this sort of stuff, mobile queries allowing for each view. So instead, how can we think about intrinsic design? And so that\'s like the best answer I can give. And for now, there is this nice resizing that you can do to kind of see how things scale. 6.1 introduced fluid typography, which was really exciting and part of this larger, intrinsic design set up. And I think we\'ll expect to see more of that over time. Sorry, for the brief mental break.\n\n<strong>Nathan Wrigley  </strong>47:36\nJust a quick reminder, we probably got 5, 6, 7 minutes or something like that before we start to wrap things up. So if you\'ve got any questions, please, please do post them in here. We have one from Paul who asks, is there any more work planned for pattern management in the future? And then WP Engine has released a plugin allowing easier management of patterns recently, I believe that was yesterday, it would be good to know if we should wait for core or assume that nothing else is coming soon.\n\n<strong>Rich Tabor  </strong>48:07\nYeah, I would say that pattern management is an important part of this new WordPress experience and having a way to create and manage local patterns, but also maybe push them to the pattern directory. And then on top of that, having a functionality built in where - it\'s kind of like a component based system where you have patterns where the design is the same across patterns, but content can change. All of that kind of falls into the same category of work. And that is something I believe WordPress will eventually do as well.\n\n<strong>Nathan Wrigley</strong>  48:41\nOkay, we\'ve got no more questions on the screen. So I\'m going to ask a question, if that\'s all right. You were demonstrating the distraction-free mode there where you could move things up, move things down, and resize pictures and images and so on. I was just wondering what the constraints on that are. So in the case of images, I could see that you could resize things. And with the text, I could see that you could, you know, highlight things and start typing wherever you wish. But I just wondered how the decisions had been made to set those parameters and those only. So yeah, around that, what\'s available in distraction-free mode? What limitations are there?\n\n<strong>Rich Tabor  </strong>49:17<strong>\n</strong>I would say, generally, it\'s what\'s available is what happens when you click on a block. The tooling is there available on the canvas before so resizing was available on the image but not the toolbar. So the resizing is still available when you\'re in distraction-free, but maybe not adding the caption piece or you know, those other toolings. It\'s almost like the content locking or content only locking API. It\'s very similar to that in a sense, but a little bit more tightened up.  Where just text and dropping in images - you can\'t necessarily open the Media Library from there unless you dive out of it. But you can drop another image onto that existing image to replace it. Some things like that.\n\n<strong>Nathan Wrigley  </strong>49:59<strong>\n</strong>It looks like a really excellent interface for people who just, well, want to concentrate on their writing. It sounds like Anne\'s all in on it.\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy</strong>  50:05\nI use it every single day. It\'s amazing.\n\n<strong>Nathan Wrigley </strong> 50:09  \nIt almost felt like a Google doc minus all the bits and pieces at the top. Yeah, really, really nice. Okay, so we have some more questions. Weston is asking, what about optimizing the experience of editing using a mobile device on the web? So I guess that\'s a little bit maybe the question that we had earlier. How can... we how can we do things on a actual mobile device? \n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy </strong> 50:30\nThat\'s a great question. There are mobile apps. So there is the mobile team and using the mobile apps. I personally don\'t use mobile apps and sometimes will edit things from Safari on my iPhone SE 2.\n\nI actually was talking to someone - their username is Nomad Skateboarding. And from what I understand, he only builds client sites from his phone. And so one of the things I said to him, I was like, \"Give us your feedback. That\'s really cool. It\'s really unique. That\'s fantastic. Like, what pain points you\'re running into, what can we improve?\" Because there is obviously like, we are in a mobile first world. My phone is sitting right next to me. I would love to hear particular pain points folks have when trying to edit in that way. You can obviously use the apps. There are some quirks with the site editor, and that I know is partially being looked into and resolved. But yeah, I think there are probably - what we\'re building now should always translate back and there are teams trying to sync back and forth. And there was a recent post from the mobile team talking about what\'s the future of mobile editing. And so I would recommend - it\'s somewhere on Make/Core. I recommend digging that up and getting involved and honestly sharing your feedback. Because I don\'t think that is an experience that we talked about enough personally.\n\nIt\'s a great question. \n\n<strong>Nathan Wrigley  </strong>51:40\nRich, anything or should we move on?\n\n<strong>Rich Tabor  </strong>51:42 \nI think that was great.\n\n<strong>Nathan Wrigley </strong> 51:44 \nOkay, perfect. Um, um, um. Okay, we have an anonymous question. It says as page speed is a big challenge, how are we optimizing the blocks for better LCP score?\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy</strong>  52:00 \nThere are, some interesting - sorry, Rich, I don\'t know if you wanted to jump in. I was going to start link dropping. \n\n<strong>Rich Tabor  </strong>52:05 \nYeah, you go ahead. Yeah. \n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy  </strong>52:07  \nYeah, there\'s some interesting work from André. Part of it involves actually adding tracking and making sure there\'s really good front end metrics. So there\'s kind of a twofer going on. In one fell swoop, we\'re focusing on better tracking and improving the tracking that we have for performance, particularly the front end. And then at the same time, also work is being done to optimize like style sheets. There\'s been some really neat stuff in previous releases that I bet I can pull up if you\'ll give me one moment.\n\n<strong>Nathan Wrigley  </strong>52:36\nYeah, whilst you try to find that, Anne, I think it\'s probably important to say that, if there are any questions which you wish to have answered which don\'t somehow get answered in the next few moments, then there will be posts created around this piece. So anything that goes missing, any question that is unanswered, there will be endeavours to get them answered. Right? Okay, show us what you got, Anne.\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy  </strong>53:00  \nYeah. So this was a post I did for 5.9, in conjunction with a whole ton of folks who contributed and actually did this work, I just was kind of gathering it up. But you\'ll see sections here around block style sheets and CSS loading. And honestly, a lot of the work with the styles engine, which is part of the global styles project, can help give a lot of opportunity to actually improve this, I recommend checking out this post to see some of what\'s already been done. And then in the future, one of the discussions that we had recently with some folks across the community from Google, from Automattic, 10up, all over the place, including our lovely performance lead, Felix. We talked about some of this stuff and about how to talk about particularly themes and also just blocks in general. And thinking about some performance improvements and developer education and automated testing and all sorts of stuff. So I won\'t go too far into this. But I think a lot of work can be done. And some of it is being done around measuring more front end metrics and very recently, LCP was added and started to be tracked here, which I think is pretty exciting. \n\n<strong>Nathan Wrigley  </strong>54:05 \nI think following the performance team and Felix Arntz, in particular, would possibly get you quite a long way towards your answers there. Okay, a couple more. Firstly, there\'s a few people helping out in the Slack channel. So, appreciate that. We\'ve got Matías answering questions, and so on. So that\'s really amazing. Thank you. Another anonymous question, any plans to support CSS Grid?\n\n<strong>Rich Tabor  </strong>54:33 \nI think it\'s something worth exploring. Probably not the major priority coming up. But definitely some interesting aspects that we\'ve seen other... other building applications do that we can learn from for sure.\n\n<strong>Nathan Wrigley  </strong>54:47  \nOkay, we\'re very short on time now. I think we\'ve got to round it off at the top of the hour. So we\'ve got about four minutes left. I\'ve got to wrap it up a little bit. So try to get these last two done if we can. This is from Mary. What are the typography options as of 6.2? we have Google fonts and self-hosted. Any plans for solutions like Adobe Type and Monotype?\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy  </strong>55:11 <strong>\n</strong>There\'s a Fonts API that got booted from 6.2 and is hopefully planned for 6.3. So I would just follow that effort. So right now, 6.2 is not introducing anything new or different there. Things are as they were. There\'s a private API that folks can can use with anything JSON. That\'s as concise as I can be.\n\n<strong>Nathan Wrigley </strong> 55:31\nNo, that\'s perfect. I think we\'re three minutes to go. That\'s probably the best time to wrap up the Q&amp;A. Apologies if you had a question and it didn\'t get answered. As I said, there will be a whole load of things created off the back of this. We will make sure that there\'s a transcript available and - just read something in the comment. Hopefully, any questions that have been asked but unanswered will be answered approaching that. Just very, very quickly, I have to say thank you to Anne and Rich in particular, for taking the time out of their busy schedules and demoing what 6.2 can do. It really looks like a transformational release. But also, thanks to Chloé and Jonathan and Lauren and Mary who are on the call, but, you know, you haven\'t necessarily seen them right now. So, appreciate them. That\'s really great. Following up off this, I\'ve got three points to mention. Following the 6.2 release on Make/Core for development updates and calls, there\'s going to be a post. It\'s make.wordpress.org/core/6-2. Also, if you\'ve been keeping a close eye on the Beta releases - I say beta, I know it\'s hysterical. The beta releases, we\'ve got version beta four has just been released. And anybody who wants to test that out would be most welcome. The URL for that is far too long for me to say out loud, but you can Google it, I\'m sure, and find out how to test for that. And also, if you are keen to follow WordPress, it\'s all over the social networks. And you can follow - basically, if you try to just follow @WordPress, then you\'ll get somewhere. So for example, on Twitter, it\'s WordPress - @WordPress. On LinkedIn, it\'s /company/WordPress. Instagram is @WordPress. And guess what? On Facebook, it\'s - what do you think it would be? It\'s @WordPress. So it\'s available all over there. And I think that\'s it. I think that\'s everything that we\'ve got to say. We\'re about one minute away from closing. So particular thanks to Rich and Anne, but thanks to everybody in the background making all of this happen. Thanks for showing up. If people don\'t show up, the work never gets done and the project never moves forward. So fully appreciate anybody who\'s given up their time to ask questions today and watch this presentation.\n\n<strong>Anne McCarthy </strong> 57:51 \nAnd thank you, Nathan. I want to call you out as being an excellent moderator and creating a safe space for us.\n\n<strong>Nathan Wrigley </strong> 57:57  \nVery, very welcome. I enjoyed doing it. I would gladly do it again. All right. I don\'t know how to end this call. So I\'m just gonna wave. Bye, everyone.\n</pre>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 06 Mar 2023 17:11:38 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:16:\"Jonathan Pantani\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:34;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:115:\"Gutenberg Times: WordPress 6.2 Product Demo, shortcodes to blocks – Are PHP Themes dead? –  Weekend Edition 245\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/?p=23530\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:115:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/wordpress-6-2-product-demo-shortcodes-to-blocks-are-php-themes-dead-weekend-edition-245/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14984:\"<p>Howdy, </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Happy March! The last month of the first quarter is already upon us and Spring can come soon enough! </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Last week I spent a considerable amount of time wrangling and reviewing developer notes for the upcoming <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/6.2/\">WordPress 6.2 release</a>. The Release candidate 1 will be published on March 7th, and that&#8217;s also the published date for the Field Guide that accompanies each major WordPress release. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>I have been very excited about the <strong>next all-women release squad</strong>, planned for 6.4, ever since Josepha Haden Chomphosy <a href=\"https://twitter.com/JosephaHaden/status/1620904918675767297\">tweeted about it</a>. If you are interested in learning more about how WordPress releases work, watch the Make Core Blog for updates about the upcoming releases. The <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/about/roadmap/\">WordPress Roadmap page</a> was recently updated and shows that the 6.3 release is planned for August and 6.4 for November 2023.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>For myself, I will have a few distractions from my WordPress work and the Gutenberg Times the next two months. After almost a quarter of a century living in Florida, my husband and I are <strong>moving back to Germany; Munich</strong> to be more precise. It&#8217;s time to go home and spend more time with our families.  Both our employers, Automattic and Oracle, and our fellow teammates are supporting us generously and wholeheartedly in our change of residence. We are forever grateful. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>I am eagerly awaiting to connect more with the German WordPress community, the communities in Africa and the rest of Europe. Speaking of which, <a href=\"https://europe.wordcamp.org/2023/\"><strong>WordCamp Europe</strong></a> is coming up in June (8-10). I already have my ticket. <a href=\"https://europe.wordcamp.org/2023/tickets/\">How about you?</a> I hope to see you in Athens. <a href=\"https://calendly.com/pauli-haack/wordcamp-europe\">Use this link</a> if you want to put an in-person meeting in Athens on our schedules. The venue looks marvelous! </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And now, without further ado, the news. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Be well! </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yours, 💕<br /><em>Birgit</em></p>\n\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-light-background-background-color has-background is-layout-flow\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container\">\n<p><strong>Table of Contents</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-sortabrilliant-guidepost\"><ul><li><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/#0-word-press-release-information\">WordPress 6.2 </a></li><li><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/#0-p\">Plugins, Themes, and Tools for #nocode site builders and owners</a></li><li><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/#2-word-press-6-0-1-and-6-1-scheduled\">Theme Development for Full Site Editing and Blocks</a></li><li><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/#3-building-themes-for-fse-and-word-press\">Building Blocks and Tools for the Block editor. </a></li></ul></div>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"0-word-press-release-information\">WordPress 6.2 </h2>\n\n\n\n<p>As mentioned, the WordPress 6.2 is coming together nicely. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Earlier this week, <strong>Anne McCarthy</strong> and <strong>Rich Tabor</strong> provided a <a href=\"https://wordpress.tv/2023/03/03/6-2-live-product-demo/\"><strong>Product Demo of WordPress 6.2.</strong></a> The recording is already available on WordPressTV. At the end, you can also listen to the Q &amp; A with questions from the live-audience. <strong>Nathan Wrigley</strong>, host of the WPTavern Jukebox and WPbuild podcasts, moderated the event. The post with, captions, transcript and shared resources will be published early next week. </p>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://wordpress.tv/2023/03/03/6-2-live-product-demo/\"><img /></a>\n\n\n\n<p>The first dev notes for WordPress 6.2  have been published to go into the Field Guide.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Marco Ciampini</strong> wrote about all the <strong><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/03/editor-components-updates-in-wordpress-6-2/\">Editor Components updates in WordPress 6.2</a>.</strong> A round-up post of notable changes to the components package in WordPress 6.2. </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Anne McCarthy</strong> posted about the <strong><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/02/wordpress-6-2-accessibility-improvements/\">WordPress 6.2 Accessibility Improvements</a> </strong>providing an overview of the many&nbsp;accessibility&nbsp;improvements and fixes coming to the next major WordPress release.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>There are more to come on Monday and Tuesday. </p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-light-background-background-color has-background is-layout-flow\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container\">\n<p><strong>🎙️ </strong> New episode:  <a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-80-wordpress-6-2-preview-gutenberg-15-2-and-15-3/\">Gutenberg Changelog #80 – WordPress 6.2 Preview, Gutenberg 15.2 and 15.3</a> with Birgit Pauli-Haack and special guest Rich Tabor  </p>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n<p>If you are a content creator and planning on writing about the WordPress 6.2 release, <strong>Anne McCarthy</strong> just published a <a href=\"https://nomad.blog/2023/03/01/wordpress-6-2-source-of-truth/\"><strong>WordPress 6.2 Source of Truth</strong></a> on her personal blog, with the caution that you don&#8217;t just copy/paste things, but us it as place to get your research started. </p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"0-p\">Plugins, Themes, and Tools for #nocode site builders and owners</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Feeling the limitations of WordPress design? Get creative with Elementor and Gutenberg! Join <strong><a href=\"https://twitter.com/joyofwp\">Bud Kraus</a> </strong>for the virtual event <a href=\"https://events.godaddy.com/events/details/godaddy-events-godaddy-pro-online-presents-elementor-or-gutenberg-why-not-the-best-of-both/\"><strong>Elementor or Gutenberg? Why Not Both?</strong></a>  hosted by GoDaddy Pro on March 8th at 1pm ET / 18:00 UTC and learn how to create stunning custom layouts and designs.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"2-word-press-6-0-1-and-6-1-scheduled\">Theme Development for Full Site Editing and Blocks</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://twitter.com/one_maggie\"><strong>Maggie Cabrera</strong></a> invites theme builders to the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/themes/2023/03/03/hallway-hangout-community-themes-initiative/\"><strong>Hallway Hangout: Community Themes Initiative</strong></a> on March 7th, 2023, to discuss the next steps for the collaborative theme building. &#8220;This announcement is the proposal of a new community themes project. The goal is to bring together a squad of people to build&nbsp;block&nbsp;themes all year around the same way the default themes are built.&#8221; Cabrera wrote. </p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p>In his post, <a href=\"https://chriscoyier.net/2023/02/16/noodling-on-wordpress-in-2023/\"><strong>Noodling on WordPress in 2023</strong></a>, <strong><a href=\"https://twitter.com/chriscoyier\">Chris Coyier</a> </strong>wrote down his thoughts about WordPress. He took a broad look at the changes WordPress experienced in the last few years, the block editor for content, and in other contexts, and Block Themes. He wrote: &#8220;<em>WordPress needs to spend a year working on DX.&nbsp;</em>There needs to be a clear message about how people should be thinking about building themes and how to do so with productivity keeping extensibility in mind.&#8221; and then he continues: &#8220;maybe that’s exactly what they just did with Block Themes&#8221; &#8211; and calls it a component model. The four words in his posts were &#8220;PHP themes are dead. 🤷‍♀️&#8221;.  </p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p><strong><a href=\"https://twitter.com/retlehs\">Ben Word</a></strong> wouldn&#8217;t have any of it, though. He posted a rebuttal: <a href=\"https://roots.io/php-themes-arent-dead/\"><strong>PHP Themes Aren’t Dead</strong></a>. <strong>Ben Word</strong> is the part of the team around the Roots project. He makes a strong case for using and developing for the block editor.  &#8220;If you’re a modern PHP developer, you will have a worse experience developing FSE themes versus building a hybrid theme that uses both PHP along with the block editor.&#8221; Word wrote. </p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p>And to stay within it for a moment, in his post <strong>Brian Coords</strong> is <a href=\"https://www.briancoords.com/embracing-theme-json-kicking-and-screaming/\"><strong>embracing theme.json, kicking and screaming</strong></a>, and he has many questions. &#8220;Its still up to plugin developers to include their own styles for things, or use fancy tooling to try to pull from <code>theme.json</code> where appropriate- neither being an optimal solution. This also becomes a documentation problem.&#8221; He wrote and continues: &#8220;When you read any docs about <code>theme.json</code>, it’s usually in the context of full site editing, which means that almost all the documentation for it assumes you’re styling blocks and building a block theme. Even parsing what features work in block themes and which ones work in hybrid themes is difficult.&#8221; </p>\n\n\n\n\n<p><strong>&nbsp;<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">&#8220;Keeping up with Gutenberg &#8211; Index 2022&#8221;</a>&nbsp;</strong><br />A chronological list of the WordPress Make Blog posts from various teams involved in Gutenberg development: Design, Theme Review Team, Core Editor, Core JS, Core CSS, Test and Meta team from Jan. 2021 on. Updated by yours truly.  <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2020/\"><em>The index 2020 is here</em></a></p>\n\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"3-building-themes-for-fse-and-word-press\">Building Blocks and Tools for the Block editor. </h2>\n\n\n\n<p>In her debut post on the WordPress Developer Blog,<strong> Joni Halabi, </strong>Senior JavaScript Front-End Developer&nbsp;at<strong>&nbsp;</strong>Georgetown University explains <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2023/02/static-vs-dynamic-blocks-whats-the-difference/\"><strong>The difference between Static and dynamic blocks</strong></a>. The difference between these two types of blocks comes down to how they are rendered on the front-end. Read on to learn more about the details, advantages, and disadvantages of each.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p>Also on the WordPress Developer blog, <strong>Ryan Welcher</strong> published his tutorial on <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2023/03/creating-a-custom-block-that-stores-post-meta/\"><strong>Creating a custom block that stores post meta</strong></a>. Learn how to create a custom dynamic block that saves information to custom <code>post_meta</code> and creates a one-to-one experience in both the block editor and on the front end. You will see an example of how to to use <code>@wordpress/create-block</code> package to scaffold a block.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jonathan Bossenger</strong>, developer educator on the WordPress training team,  takes his readers along on his experience <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2023/03/converting-your-shortcodes-to-blocks/\"><strong>Converting Shortcodes to blocks</strong></a> and has tips and tricks for creating blocks from existing Shortcodes, based on real-world examples. You learn to understand when a Shortcode should be converted to a block, processes to follow to convert blocks, and useful block development practices.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Tom de Visser</strong>, developer from the Netherlands and core contributor, shared how he has fun learning new things by looking at someone else&#8217;s code. It&#8217;s alittle harder now to do was with React in the mix there is a build step that hides the source code. In his post, <a href=\"https://tomdevisser.blog/how-to-learn-about-wordpress-block-development-by-playing-with-core-blocks/\"><strong>WordPress block development, hacking core blocks</strong></a>, De Visser shows you how to get the Gutenberg source code on your local machine, how to run the development and build processes from the project with Webpack and how to use <code>wp-env</code> to spin up a local environment where you don’t have to worry about breaking anything.</p>\n\n\n\n\n<p><strong><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/need-a-zip-from-master/\">Need a plugin .zip from Gutenberg&#8217;s master branch?</a></strong><br />Gutenberg Times provides daily build for testing and review. <br />Have you been using it? Hit reply and let me know.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><img alt=\"GitHub all releases\" src=\"https://img.shields.io/github/downloads/bph/gutenberg/total?style=for-the-badge\" /></p>\n\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n\n<p>Featured Image: &#8220;<a href=\"https://www.flickr.com/photos/131286397@N03/17223321258\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Printer&#8217;s Wooden Letter Blocks 1</a>&#8221; by <a href=\"https://www.flickr.com/photos/131286397@N03\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Sean-B</a> is licensed under <a href=\"https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0/?ref=openverse\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">CC BY 2.0</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-css-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Don&#8217;t want to miss the next Weekend Edition? </strong></p>\n\n\n\n<form class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-form ngl-form ngl-portrait\" action=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/\" method=\"post\"><div class=\"ngl-form-container\"><div class=\"ngl-form-field\"><label class=\"ngl-form-label\" for=\"ngl_email\"><br />Type in your Email address to subscribe.</label><div class=\"ngl-form-input\"><input type=\"email\" class=\"ngl-form-input-text\" name=\"ngl_email\" id=\"ngl_email\" /></div></div><button type=\"submit\" class=\"ngl-form-button\">Subscribe</button><p class=\"ngl-form-text\">We hate spam, too and won&#8217;t give your email address to anyone except Mailchimp to send out our Weekend Edition</p></div><div class=\"ngl-message-overlay\"><div class=\"ngl-message-svg-wrap\"></div><div class=\"ngl-message-overlay-text\">Thanks for subscribing.</div></div><input type=\"hidden\" name=\"ngl_list_id\" id=\"ngl_list_id\" value=\"26f81bd8ae\" /><input type=\"hidden\" name=\"ngl_double_optin\" id=\"ngl_double_optin\" value=\"yes\" /></form>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-css-opacity is-style-wide\" />\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sat, 04 Mar 2023 20:55:23 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:18:\"Birgit Pauli-Haack\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:35;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:68:\"WPTavern: WordPress Themes Team Proposes Community Themes Initiative\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:30:\"https://wptavern.com/?p=142443\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:79:\"https://wptavern.com/wordpress-themes-team-proposes-community-themes-initiative\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:3052:\"<p>Representatives of the WordPress Themes Team are looking to carry forward the momentum contributors found in creating the Twenty Twenty-Three theme’s style variations by <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/themes/2023/03/03/hallway-hangout-community-themes-initiative/\">launching a new Community Themes initiative</a>. Leading up to WordPress 6.1’s release, 19 designers from eight countries built 38 unique style variations, and <a href=\"https://wptavern.com/wordpress-announces-10-style-variation-selections-for-twenty-twenty-three-theme\">10 were selected</a> to ship with the release. At that time, contributors <a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/twentytwentythree/issues/73\">discussed</a> a spinoff child theme project with additional style variations for Twenty Twenty-Three.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Automattic-sponsored core contributor Maggie Cabrera <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/themes/2023/03/03/hallway-hangout-community-themes-initiative/\">published</a> a proposal that seeks to extend this new era of increased design contribution through a Community Themes project.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>“The goal is to bring together a squad of people to build block themes all year around the same way the default themes are built,” Cabrera said. She cited other reasons for the proposal, including the need to increase the number and the variety of quality block themes in the directory, and capitalize on community momentum during times when no default theme is being actively developed. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>The reality is there simply are not enough block themes available to the community yet with the current count at 247. Last year, the WordPress project fell short of its <a href=\"https://wptavern.com/wordpress-ramps-up-social-learning-events-on-full-site-editing-project-aims-for-500-block-themes-in-2022\">goal to get 500 block themes in the repository</a> by the end of 2022. The world of patterns and the ease of inserting blocks into templates gives users more design flexibility than ever before, so the landscape of themes is slowly changing, but there is no replacement for finding a theme design that just works and enabling it with one click. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>The new Community Themes initiative may offer an easier onramp for theme developers who are still getting into block theming, as well as a supportive community of builders who spur each other on to create themes that are compatible with the latest and greatest features of WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The Themes Team&#8217;s next hallway hangout discussion will focus on the goals and purpose of this initiative. Contribution opportunities will be available for all skill levels, including designing, coding, testing, and reviewing themes. If you are interested to help on this project, the team is inviting people to join the next hangout on <a href=\"https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20230307T15&p1=1440\">Tuesday, March 7, 2023, at 10:00 AM EST</a>. <a href=\"https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/291851732/\">RSVP</a> is required to attend online.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 03 Mar 2023 20:46:18 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"Sarah Gooding\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:36;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:152:\"Post Status: Brian Gardner On WordPress Now And Today, Talking Design And Workflows, Full Site Editing, Gutenberg And Beyond  — Post Status Draft 143\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:32:\"https://poststatus.com/?p=147822\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:154:\"https://poststatus.com/brian-gardner-on-wordpress-now-and-today-talking-design-and-workflows-full-site-editing-gutenberg-and-beyond-post-status-draft-143/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:60433:\"<div class=\"is-layout-flow wp-block-group eplus-wrapper has-theme-palette-2-color has-theme-palette-8-background-color has-text-color has-background\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container\"><div class=\"wp-block-post-excerpt\"><p class=\"wp-block-post-excerpt__excerpt\">In this episode, <a href=\"https://twitter.com/bgardner?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor\">Brian Gardner</a>, Principal Developer Advocate at <a href=\"https://twitter.com/WPEngine\">WPEngine</a>, joins <a href=\"https://twitter.com/corymiller303\">Cory Miller</a> to discuss the solid foundation WordPress established and how it might continue to expand into the future. </p></div>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-spacer eplus-wrapper\"></div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"yoast-reading-time__wrapper\"><span class=\"yoast-reading-time__icon\"></span><span class=\"yoast-reading-time__spacer\"></span><span class=\"yoast-reading-time__descriptive-text\">Estimated reading time:  </span><span class=\"yoast-reading-time__reading-time\">73</span><span class=\"yoast-reading-time__time-unit\"> minutes</span></p>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://poststatus.com/planet/feed/#h-transcript\">Transcript</a> ↓</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><a href=\"https://twitter.com/bgardner?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor\">Brian Gardner</a> initially found WordPress as a blogger. His journey led him to found Studio Press which eventually became part of <a href=\"https://twitter.com/WPEngine\">WPEngine</a>. Brian and Cory flashback into what was and lean into the potential future of WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><strong>Top Takeaways:</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<ul type=\"video\" class=\"wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\">\n<li><strong>Workflow Education.</strong> Getting adoption for workflows can be challenging. Agencies may resist changes to their workflow even if the change may bring significant benefits. Investing in education is key. Contributing to WordPress education by testing things and hosting workshops and demonstrations can ensure the project as a whole succeeds.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Scaling is the Safety of WordPress.</strong> Many of the page builder softwares are not built for much beyond brochure-type sites. The extensibility of WordPress makes so much possible for businesses looking to deliver excellent customer experience or expand their site capabilities.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Competition vs. Cooperation.</strong> Today there is far more competition in WordPress. In the early days, competition existed alongside cooperation. We were competing while we shared, learned, and grew together. This cooperation led to innovation within WordPress and cultivated a vibrant, growing ecosystem. A shift towards community innovation can remind us that a rising tide lifts all boats.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"is-layout-flow wp-block-group\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container\">\n<div class=\"is-layout-flex wp-container-32 wp-block-columns sponsor has-theme-palette-8-background-color has-background\" id=\"StellarWP\">\n<div class=\"is-layout-flow wp-block-column\">\n<h3 class=\"StellarWP has-theme-palette-1-color has-text-color\" id=\"Sponsor\"><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f64f.png\" alt=\"🙏\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> Sponsor: <span><a href=\"https://poststat.us/elementor\" rel=\"sponsored nofollow\">Elementor</a></span></h3>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Elementor </strong>enables web creators to build professional, pixel-perfect websites with an intuitive visual builder. Quickly create amazing websites for your clients or your business with complete control over every piece, without writing a single line of code. Join <a href=\"https://elementor.com/community/\">a vast community of web creators</a> from all around the world who deliver exceptional websites using Elementor.</p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"is-layout-flow wp-block-column is-vertically-aligned-top\"><div class=\"wp-block-image elementor-logo\">\n<img src=\"https://cdn.poststatus.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Elementor-Logo-Symbol-Blue-150x150.png\" alt=\"Elementor\" class=\"wp-image-104033\" width=\"150\" height=\"150\" title=\"Elementor Logo\" />Elementor</div></div>\n</div>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"eplus-wrapper\" id=\"h-mentioned-in-the-show\"><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f517.png\" alt=\"🔗\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> Mentioned in the show<strong>:</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://www.blogger.com/\">Blogspot</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.studiopress.com/themes/revolution/\">Revolution</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.studiopress.com/\">Studio Press</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://twitter.com/nathanrice\">Nathan Rice</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wptavern.com/\">WP Tavern</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://twitter.com/justintadlock\">Justin Tadlock</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://webflow.com/\">Webflow</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.figma.com/\">Figma</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://twitter.com/ajmorris\">AJ Morris</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://twitter.com/RafalTomal\">Rafal Tomal</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.designkit.org/\">Design Kit</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://frostwp.com/\">Frost</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/\">WordPress Learn</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.godaddy.com/\">GoDaddy</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://automattic.com/\">Automattic</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.squarespace.com/\">Squarespace</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.wix.com/\">Wix</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.weebly.com/\">Weebly</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.shopify.com/\">Shopify</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://twitter.com/Sara11D\">Sarah Dunn</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.gravityforms.com/\">Gravity Forms</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://pagely.com/\">Pagely</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.wpbeaverbuilder.com/\">Beaver Builder</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://elementor.com/\">Elementor</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"eplus-wrapper\" id=\"h-you-can-follow-post-status-and-our-guests-on-twitter\"><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f426.png\" alt=\"🐦\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> You can follow Post Status and our guests on Twitter:</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"eplus-wrapper\">\n<li><a href=\"https://twitter.com/bgardner?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor\">Brian Gardner</a> (Developer Advocate, <a href=\"https://twitter.com/WPEngine\">WPEngine</a>)</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://twitter.com/corymiller303\">Cory Miller</a> (CEO, <a href=\"https://twitter.com/post_status\">Post Status</a>)</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://twitter.com/lemonadecode\">Olivia Bisset</a> (Intern, <a href=\"https://twitter.com/post_status\">Post Status</a>)</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"eplus-wrapper has-background\">The <strong>Post Status Draft</strong> podcast is geared toward WordPress professionals, with interviews, news, and deep analysis. <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f4dd.png\" alt=\"📝\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /><br /><br /><a href=\"https://poststatus.com/category/post-status-podcasts/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Browse our archives</a>, and don’t forget to subscribe via <a href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/post-status-draft-wordpress/id976403008\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">iTunes</a>, <a href=\"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS8ySkU5c2M4UA\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Google Podcasts</a>, <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/c/PostStatus\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">YouTube</a>, <a href=\"http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/krogsgard/post-status-draft-wordpress-podcast\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Stitcher</a>, <a href=\"https://wordpress-post-status-draft-podcast.simplecast.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Simplecast</a>, or <a href=\"https://feeds.simplecast.com/2JE9sc8P\">RSS</a>. <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f3a7.png\" alt=\"🎧\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /></p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"eplus-wrapper\" id=\"h-transcript\">Transcript</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> [00:00:00] Hey everybody, welcome back to post draft. Um, I don\'t even know what to characterize this, uh, this se, this interview, Brian. Um, but I\'ve got a very old longtime friend, not that he\'s old, just that we go way back. Um, to, when I started with WordPress, I found this guy named Brian Gardner. And so I thought, um, who better to talk about with WordPress being 20th this year, our 20th anniversary, um, Brian, who was instrumental in a lot of things that helped, um, Build and grow this cool ecosystem we call the business of WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But anyway, um, Brian, welcome back. I think you\'ve been interviewed before, probably like by Brian or somebody. Yeah. But welcome, welcome to the post draft podcast.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brian Gardner:</strong> Uh, thank you for having me. Uh, one point of clarification. I am old. I\'m 48. Um, nearing, nearing 50. And in, you know, today\'s terms and. Even as it relates to [00:01:00] WordPress and people who are in this ecosystem.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I\'m old and I\'m okay with that. Cause, uh, with, with that comes wisdom and experience and, uh, the ability to shepherd. So, uh, I embrace the stage of life that I\'m in.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> Yeah. That\'s awesome. Well, you know, when we first started and met, we were in our thirties . Now we\'re in our forties, and it\'s like, uh, I thought there\'s a nostalgic fact to that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Absolutely. But also, yeah, you\'ve, you\'ve been there and seen things evolve over the years. Um, okay. So thank you for that. Thank you for being on, being on today. Um, I, uh, I wanted to talk a little bit about the past. Um, and tell me how you found WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brian Gardner:</strong> I don\'t even know if I know the story, by the way.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah. You know, like it\'s been a while since I\'ve told the story. Um, and, and a lot of things I talk about, people still don\'t even understand what, what it was or what it was back in the day because it just, you know, they\'re [00:02:00] newer and stuff like that. Um, but I was working as a project manager at an architectural firm, and I just wanted to start writing and blogging.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Blogging at that point was sort of in its infancy and there were, you know, things like movable type and Google\'s, Google\'s blog spot and, you know, WordPress was a thing back then. But I started with, uh, Google\'s blog spot, which is their blogger platform now. Uh, and some, somewhere along the way, I ran into somebody online who said, Hey, you should check out WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It\'s you. It\'s a little bit more sophisticated, you could do more stuff with it. And I\'m like, yeah, sure. Okay. So I tried to install it, couldn\'t figure it out. So I did the whole, you know, Google my way through all of it. Uh, and I was like, okay, now that I get this, this is kind of cool. I\'m kind of glad that I learned how this works and whatnot.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It\'s all, it\'s all new internet stuff from back then. And, uh, I remember trying to go through, and I don\'t remember WP themes.net or something like that, wherever the at, at the time the free, uh, theme directory was hosted and I couldn\'t really find [00:03:00] anything I liked. Um, and so I just took some, one of the themes down and I\'m like, well, maybe I can try to change some things inside these files.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Didn\'t know anything about HTML or CSS , but I was like, well, let me just try right? Uh, and I just started hacking my way through the theme, sort of reformatted it. My O c d uh, didn\'t like the, the, the line breaks and the indentation haphazardly that, that were in the theme file. So I started there. Um, that hasn\'t changed to date.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Uh, the tendency to be obsessive around, uh, formatting of code, but, um, just learning, you know, what a hex code was and how to change a color or spacing, uh, through the theme and the theme style sheet, um, kind of gave me to a point where I was like, okay, well I created something and now I feel like this is mine.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Right? It was sort of like forking something, but I didn\'t even know what that meant at the time, right? Because open source didn\'t mean anything to me. I was just doing a thing. And so, um, you know, the, the fast forwarded version was I, I started developing free themes, giving them out for distribution, and [00:04:00] then customizing them as a moonlighting sort of gig.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And from there, uh, revolution, the theme the design came about. And, uh, when that was rejected by a real estate agent in Boston, uh, it was an opportunity that probably changed for certain the trajectory of my life, but likely that of others as.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> Yeah, so, uh, uh, we were talking before we started recording that maybe there\'s a lot of people in WordPress today that don\'t remember those, but I think it\'s important to reflect back that time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Back then, Brian was the wild, wild west, uh mm-hmm. like, you know, movable type had had done their thing and there was this mass exodus over to WordPress, which. I think one of the biggest, you know, parts of, uh, WordPress\'s success was they, uh, the leaders at that community made kind of a misstep and it mm-hmm.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>it was an access over here, but that produced this. There was cool code coming in and that, you know, things in WordPress and, but there [00:05:00] was this, that\'s what I remember finding as this desert of good themes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brian Gardner:</strong> Yep. That was rock.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> And that\'s where you were rocking, man. That\'s how I found you. I think I found you through a free theme, um, and was like, wait, who\'s this guy?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I like his design. And then we struck up a friendship that was on this thing called Talk. Yep. Uh, okay. So fast forward then you started Studio Press. Mm-hmm. 2008. Um, and then tell us a snippet of that. I think many people know that, but let\'s make sure we cover that. Uh, and then you started what became Studio Press, correct.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And you wanna share that little snippet of story?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brian Gardner:</strong> Yeah. So originally it was all called Revolution. And at the time I didn\'t know anything about intellectual property and so I just named something what I wanted to name it. And unfortunately, the product of having it become successful is it gets put on the radar of.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Technology and software companies. And so the short of it is we rebranded to studio. [00:06:00] Uh, as a result of a cease and desist letter I received from a a t uh, a company in the United Kingdom, it, it probably would never have gone anywhere, but it was not worth my hassle to fight it. So, so we rebranded a studio press.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Uh, not too long into that is when, um, we made some hires. Nathan Rice, who, you know, is, was one of them. And we sort of built this framework called Genesis, uh, together. Um, was a theme framework, child, parent theme system that essentially ran the, the tenure of studio press\'s, uh, glory days and, uh, you know, for the better part of 10 years.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And, uh, it\'s, well, five years, gosh, hard to believe Five years in June will mark, uh, the anniversary of the acquisition of Studio Press from WP Engine. So, uh, there\'s a lot of in between all of that for sure. Um, but yeah, it\'s, uh, it\'s still. It\'s hard to believe.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> Well, I wanna set that too, just in case to show how far you back and what you\'ve done and part of that, um, but then I want to catch up too.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:07:00] What are you doing today? Mm-hmm and what\'s interesting, I know I\'ve seen some things you put out, uh, with full-size ed editing. I\'m like, Brian\'s geeking out over there doing this thing. But tell me what you\'re doing now and what you\'re interested in. With WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brian Gardner:</strong> Yeah. So before I get to that point, one of the reasons we sold studio press was at the time our, our partnership team didn\'t wanna necessarily, or because we had other things in our, on our agenda, we didn\'t wanna figure out what this Gutenberg thing was coming.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Right. It was at the time, it was just announced this, this editor thing. And I told our team, I\'m like, look, either we need to like lean in and like really like double down and invest into where WordPress is going with this and what that means for our product and what we\'re working on. Or we need to just, you know, kind of call it a day and uh, focus on our other projects.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Some of us were already doing personal things and it was time we kind of wanted to go do our own thing anyways, individuals, And so we\'re, we set out to find some, some people to see if there was interest in acquiring studio press. And so [00:08:00] we sold Studio Press in summer of 2018. And I was like, Hmm, maybe that was it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Maybe that was the extent of my WordPress tenure. And, uh, I was gonna try to do other things and I was interested in just trying, just different stuff. Cuz at that point for what, 10 or 12 years, I\'d been just doing WordPress theme design, um, pretty much every day. And so, um, yeah, you know, like. So a couple years went on, I did some agency work.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I messed around with some real estate tech ideas and whatnot. Uh, certainly never forgot about WordPress. Continued to always use WordPress, followed along with, you know, the developments of Gutenberg and the editor and all of that. And it was about two summers ago, I came across a, an article on WP Tavern, um, from Justin Tadlock kind of showing a, showing what block patterns were and, uh, how they work and sort of the, and I just literally tweeted this a few minutes ago.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Uh, one of my favorite parts of it all is sort of the, um, The replication [00:09:00] aspect where you can copy and paste and, you know, things happen so much easier and quicker now. And when I saw and understood what patterns were, uh, sort of immediately stopped me in my tracks and sort of was the, um, the seed that was planted for Frost, which is a, a WordPress theme now that WP Engine owns.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And we\'re using that on our developer relations team to sort of showcase, uh, the possibilities of the editor and use it for educational purposes. And so, you know, Love WordPress. Probably never been as excited about what it is and what it can do. Uh, as you know, I\'m more excited today than I\'ve ever been.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Uh, I get to do design related things around it. And I just really, you know, the landscape has changed the competitive landscape, right? You\'ve got Webflow and Figma and all of those types of tools that now sort of, and we can get to that sort of pose, existential threats as we try to work our way through sort of all these phasing, um, that I\'m still bullish and I, [00:10:00] I think, you know, 43% of the internet still uses it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So on some level there\'s some security involved, but, uh, you know, we wanna be the change. That\'s why we exist. Our team at, uh, WP Engine.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> Yeah, I\'m glad, I\'m glad to hear, uh, someone else say that cuz I\'m, I\'m right with you. There are existential threats. Two WordPress, you, you mentioned Webflow and . I talk about that a lot.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We, we, AJ Morrison and I looked at it a couple weeks and I was like, wow. Um, when you look out the landscape today, so much tech just accelerates an impossible pace. And I\'ve looked at it. Gone. Okay. WordPress needs to kind reestablish ourselves, but I\'m so happy to hear though that you see opportu. And hope, um, with, and, and, and I hear it from what you just said is like full side editing, Gutenberg, and I\'m curious your thoughts about that, where we are now, where we\'re going.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, you\'ve had a big presence obviously in design and theme work within WordPress and been a champion for that for a long time. [00:11:00] But I want to hear what you\'re excited about and passionate. And why, why, why this full set editing, why set frost, for instance, the patterns, how, what you\'re working on, what you\'re thinking about, what you\'re dreaming of.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brian Gardner:</strong> You know, like we all live in a, a no code, easy click, drag and drop sort of society. And like all of the stuff that you and I built like back in the day right? Like was all hard coded. And, and even the PHP files, the text, it was all hard coded. And, and I. To update your website, you\'d have to go into a file and change text in a PHP file, which nobody ever wants to do unless you built some sort of gooey for it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so like, like throughout the years, even as I look back on what we did with Genesis, there were still elements, you know, it was not ideal to, um, I mean, at the time it, I guess it was the only option, but it, looking back on it, it was not ideal to, uh, create a front page file with a bunch of widget areas and you managed your homepage by way of like eight different widgets.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then, You know, inevitably somebody would say, well, I wanna replicate this [00:12:00] page and use it for like an inner page. I\'m like, well, okay, you gotta recreate the file, re-register eight more widget. It just, it was a mess. And so where we\'re at today and why it excites me so much is that it\'s so easy to do all of the things that have been historically hard or difficult in WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And of course when you compare them to some of these other software technologies like Webflow, which are even easier than WordPress has ever been and may ever will be. That\'s kind of where you\'re like, okay, this is great that WordPress can do this, but like there\'s a, a ton of other companies and, and of course we haven\'t even talked about the page builders yet, with which within the WordPress ecosystem sort of precursor where we\'re at now with the capabilities.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, it just, it. I\'m a framework kind of person, and when I understand how something works and kind of can work within and build product around, like I, that really excites me. That brings me joy. It allows me to like, um, exercise and flex some of the design muscles because I\'ve got a system that can accommodate, [00:13:00] like changing and, and modifications so quickly.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, and just that, that\'s part of, I think what excites me the most, just having the ability to deliver something to an end user who. You know, make it their own and, and have a demo, like without having to like, spend an hour recreating it. Um, so just looking within the WordPress kind of product system itself, just where we\'re at now is, is so much more.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>There\'s, the capabilities are so much more than they\'ve ever been.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> So full side editing. I haven\'t dug in fully to it, but I see the promise that it holds. Um, and then you mentioned like Gutenberg with blocks and patterns. So much potential there. Yes. But it kind of harkens back to when we started. You know, there\'s opportunity here.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>People need to come in, like you and others, I think at Rich, rich Tabor and mm-hmm. you and different people in the design space and go, here\'s what could be of this. Here are practical applications of that. [00:14:00] Um, tell me a little bit about your work with Frost in, in that. Is Frost kind of that, um, your r and d lab for doing this kind of.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brian Gardner:</strong> Yeah, it is. Uh, a lot of people who followed me in studio press back in the day know of a gentleman, a very talented designer named Rafa Tamal. Uh, he was our lead designer at Studio Press for a long time. He is on his own now. Uh, he actually created a thing called Design Kit. It\'s a Figma. Product that allows sort of like a wire frame system inside of it where, you know, he\'s got a library of various components of a website, headers, footers, featured section hero sections, testimonials, all that kind of stuff.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And the idea behind that was um, through Figma you can create files and do mock-ups for clients and stuff like that very quickly cuz you have a library of these sections to work with. Well, when I realized what block patterns. Which are essentially the same thing to sort of the WordPress coded version of these things in Figma.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I was like, wouldn\'t it be really cool if you could set up a system that basically had like [00:15:00] a library to choose from, where you could insert into WordPress\'s dashboard, like, I want to insert this header with this section and that section, and just like top to bottom, build a page out within a matter of a few clicks.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so in its infancy, that\'s what Frost set out to be. Frost was a very vanilla sort. Not opinionated design, black and white wire frame setup, which has a bunch of patterns in there, several headers, several footers, all the kinds of sections that you could think of building. And the idea behind that was just to, if anything, help us inform ourselves on how this all works, how it can be used to like build sites and then.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>WP Engine brought that in when I was hired, and so it\'s been sort of like our, our toy within developer relations to sort of showcase things and build things. We\'re gonna hopefully move that into a little bit more production ready, um, staging here pretty soon, uh, so that people just can use it, um, beyond its current capabilities.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But yeah, so Frost is, is [00:16:00] just sort of our experimental thing. We, we stay up to date with all of the latest updates that Gutenberg the plugin brings. So once Gutenberg ships, frost has a dependency on it. So we can like leverage all of the things that are coming so we can show people how it works, how it\'s built, how it can be used.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so it\'s just, it\'s been sort of like an anchor in inside our. You know, I</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> think back about, I still create WordPress websites this way, but of course the Gutenberg tools has gotten really good and yeah. And, uh, I\'m fully embraced Gutenberg. Um, but you know, back in the day, you know, you had a theme. You were talking about changing CSS and stuff like that, and, um, as I\'ve talked to a number of agencies doing client work, you know, I always think about</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brian Gardner:</strong> workflow.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yep.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> Um, Not to contrast it necessarily, but how, how do you envision the designer developer\'s workflow in WordPress with, with site editing? What, how do you [00:17:00] approach, I guess, might be a better way to ask it about building a WordPress website today? In 20th anniversary in 2023, you know, building a website project.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I\'m, I\'m just curious, uh, I learned a lot of the theme stuff that I know from you mm-hmm. , um, in the early days. So I\'m curious, I\'m gonna ask the same question. 16, 17 years later,</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brian Gardner:</strong> much of what I do is sort of a do as I say, not as I do thing, just cuz I, I understand how things work so well behind the scenes that I, I shortcut a lot of things I think other folks have the ability to do.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And that\'s not a flex necessarily and it\'s probably a drawback. Um, just a sort of a fly in the way. I, I like to do things. Personally, I just, you know, frost is a, is a blank slate theme and so generally, like I take it and fork it anytime I want to do anything with it. Um, You know, like if I\'m doing a client site, I\'ll take frost.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>First thing I\'ll do is rename everything for the client site. Similar to what we would do, you know, you rename the theme folder, rename the functions thing so that you know, it, it feels like, um, [00:18:00] it\'s a pro, it\'s something that\'s being custom built for, for a customer. Now you talk about agencies and, and that\'s sort of like what we\'ve encountered here.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Uh, obviously agencies matter a lot to our business at WP Engine. And it\'s actually the, the subset of people who\'ve probably pushed back the most on Gutenberg and this block editor because of workflow. Because they\'ve got established workflows where teams have to sort of adhere to certain policies and certain standards and practices.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so it\'s harder, uh, many agencies just are built off of page builders, right? They, or not built off of, but they leverage page builders. So you\'re asking them to effect. Change their entire workflow, regardless of how cool and how easy it is, it\'s still a change, it\'s still a time investment. And so for the most part, in our experience with our, our developer relations efforts, we\'re, we\'re realizing that agencies are the ones that sort of resist the most.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And that\'s okay. It\'s understandable. Um, but we\'re also sort of slowly just demonstrating, hey, the things that you\'re doing now can also [00:19:00] be done with word. Core capabilities, it can also be done quicker. And so while yes, there\'s an investment to learn how it works, but you know, the expedition of the expedition of workflow is I think what excites me the most.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sort of having library of patterns and things to draw from. Uh, you know, what used to take us, uh, 10 hours to build a site can take us two. Right. And so these are the kinds of things that I get excited about, not only for myself, but like for other people to say, Hey, here\'s, here\'s a new workflow that could actually be advantageous to your business.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It\'ll help you scale, things like that. What I</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> admire about what you did with you and your team did with Innocence is you created a workflow. Mm-hmm. , you know, for people to, and they\'re still fanatics about Genesis and for good reason. And, and I\'m curious, like, what do we need to do as a community? To help that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We want WordPress to still be the primary tool that people build. Yeah. Web projects on, um, what do you, what are the things [00:20:00] that need to happen? And I gather a lot of it\'s the work you\'re doing today. Sure. But I\'m curious, what are those hallmarks to make? You all did it once. WordPress is really good, like, you know, has that workflow established, but we need some new workflows to embrace WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Full side editing. Good word, yada, yada. And what do you think those elements that need to happen?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brian Gardner:</strong> Uh, a lot of it\'s educate, go ahead</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> for, for those agencies, because I think about they\'re the people. Mm-hmm. , um, out there helping create that growth we\'re talking about with WordPress that\'s sustaining this for so long.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brian Gardner:</strong> Yeah, a lot of it\'s education. I mean, learn, the WordPress Learn team is doing quite a bit like as the project itself, there are, we see them now, GoDaddy, automatic, WP Engine, you know, these developer relations teams that are starting to form really are, are sort of a demonstration of giving back to the community.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Right. Five for the future. Uh, cuz a lot of the work, at least that we\'re doing is contributions to WordPress testing things, helping make it better so that just the, [00:21:00] the project as a whole can, can succeed. Um, so education demonstrations, workshops, uh, the WordPress online, uh, at Meetup is, is a very big thing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Uh, a lot of the people who are doing that stuff are community members, people, you know, some, some sponsored, some, some not. I mean, we obviously get to do some of that as part of our job. Uh, Just demonstrating in just various forms, right? Because there\'s, there\'s all kinds of flavors of WordPress. There\'s people who are just using it as like end users, and there are people who are building Nassau websites with it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So we\'ve got, you know, to serve different subsets of people and to educate and show in different ways. I think, um, one of the biggest pushbacks, I think it was WordPress six point. Or at least this is maybe when it was shipping, was the sort of ability to lock blocks this whole block locking a p i, which was an agency pushback like, Hey, I, this is great for people who are like, tinkering around, but we don\'t.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The last thing we wanna do is sort of, uh, equip our end user, our, our client with the ability to break their [00:22:00] site by just toying with, you know, settings. Things like that and buttons, and so WordPress added and they\'re still adding more capabilities for block locking, which basically means you can set up a whole section of a website and just.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Block, block locking them out of being able to manipulate it. Like, hey, can\'t, like move the columns around, but you can change the text. Right? And that\'s something that, that would be very appropriate to turn over to a client. Um, sort of protects the integrity of the site, but allows them to sort of maintain and manage it themselves.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So there\'s just a lot of flavors of that. And I, I, documentation is probably the one thing that lacks the most because everything is moving so quickly, like things are changing mid-flight and all of that. So it\'s hard. Even do some of this stuff because by the time you cite, you know, the, the joke, the Golden Gate Bridge, once you get done painting the Golden Bri Gate Bridge, you\'d have to go back and start again.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cause it takes so long to do it. It, it\'s similar with documentation. By the time you like produce something and show someone how to do that, like the site editor screen or the u the user interface changes and so [00:23:00] therefore, like you gotta update it and things like that. So, I think we\'re at a really good point.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>6.2 should deliver and sort of level off a lot of this stuff that\'s been kind of coming so quickly, uh, which I\'m really excited about. Cuz now it\'s more about, okay now, now that things are stabilizing a lot, now we can convince people it\'s trustworthy software to use. We can feel better educating people and showcasing how things work cuz sort of.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The, uh, the screenshots don\'t tend to change as much, and so now it\'s more just a matter of kind of rolling up our sleeves and doing the work and showing people how it can be used, how it could be beneficial to their company or business, and effectively help them change their workflows to, to leverage inevitably what\'s here and what\'s still coming.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> Well, I know back in when we started out, you know, anybody, the beauty WordPress is anybody could pretty much with that five minute install mm-hmm. , um, create something on the web and have it in this database and [00:24:00] all these tools there and over time and um, I think I\'ve seen, I know you\'ve seen it too, but it\'s just the Squarespace, wick, Weebly effect.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mm-hmm. this tool underneath these tools, sets of tools underneath like a webflow. and, um, gosh, start to, to really, I, I would say a road, but like, That market, even though I still prefer to do it here, I\'m not gonna go to Squarespace weekly. I know that, like you said, I know the, I know what I\'m dealing with here.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mm-hmm. . Um, the unfortunate thing is sad for me is that I don\'t, I wonder about that market, but your work at WP Engine, you all do great project work and um, with the hosting that you all provide, but your clients are doing really cool projects. Mm-hmm. , and I\'ve seen this like section out of. Client work side of things, uh, this, this do it yourself or still there?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, you know, somebody preferred just to use Squarespace and Weebly and that. They go to WordPress. But then I see two things, particularly in [00:25:00] Postes, kind of what I call a boutique agency. They\'re doing 25, 50, 70 $5,000 projects with a kind of size of business. You know that someone is hiring someone to do it with more complexity.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yep. And then I see another, and I don\'t have these perfectly out, but I see these broad strokes of enterprise. At scale project, which is awesome. Like, I can\'t imagine someone trying to deliver an enterprise project and going, wait, there\'s 50 people that could touch this. 500 people. I don\'t know. You know?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah. Um, that\'s one thing I\'ve seen that I kind of, um, I\'ll, I\'ll just tell you as we go. Way back is sad. Yeah. This bottom market\'s going on. But I\'m curious what you\'re seeing, particularly with your work at WP Engine too, is the kinda. That\'s being done on this scales up from the, I have an idea. I can roll my website out With this thing called WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah. To more complex type organizations and things like that. What are you seeing with in, in [00:26:00] those realms?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brian Gardner:</strong> I see. Well, WP Engine for sure. And I think just WordPress in general. Um, generally gravitating, even though Guttenberg itself, the editor\'s intent was really to accommodate sort of the DIYers, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The tinkerers and the, the Wicks and Squarespace types. WordPress\'s Bread and butter has primarily been, even though it started as a plugin platform, really, it\'s a really good c m s and there\'s a lot, just all because of it\'s open source nature, all of the plugins that exist, the ecosystem and the extensibility.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, I don\'t think that that is the, the, the, the market that I think will be able to sustain sort of all of what\'s going on the most because Squarespace and Wick and Webflow, these are all. Catering more towards like the single user, small, very small boutique, you know, brochure type sites of things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Anything beyond that. Those, those, uh, those softwares can\'t even come close. Shopify\'s about like the only exception. I mean, it\'s very specifically built for [00:27:00] e-commerce and, and to scale with e-commerce, but there\'s not a lot beyond that. And I think that\'s where WordPress will kind of ultimately stay safe.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Which doesn\'t necessarily feel good for the boutique agency who\'s now losing out to people, building their own sites on some of this other stuff. But, uh, and so I think there, there needs to be sort of a mind shift to some degree. Um, I\'m not saying a boutique agency has to like all of a sudden become 10 up.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, But just there, there is a change and I, I think for better or worse, it\'s gonna sort of hinge on who, who responds to what\'s here and, and all of that. Uh, cause I think at some point people will, a, a client will come along and say, I\'ve heard of WordPress in this new block thing. I need a site built that way.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Uh, and what we tell everybody we talk to, um, which, which is quite a bit of people. At some point you need to be, that\'s your value add that you could build with, we call it modern WordPress. Right. Um, and if you say, well, I, I could build it in classic press, like that\'s not gonna ultimately be a great plan of action.[00:28:00]</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> I\'m curious what you\'re seeing at the enterprise. It\'s a space I. We\'ve, we\'ve, we both have friends that have played on that level for the longest time, and I always, when I hear enterprise, I get excited about WordPress, but I know there\'s challenges there too, but, mm-hmm. , what are you seeing with your enterprise?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, Agency clients, um, at WP Engine ,</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brian Gardner:</strong> I personally don\'t interact that much with like enterprise at that level, mainly because, you know, my, my heart and uh, affection generally kind of like lends itself towards like the, the small town , you know, you know, less Walmart and more, you know, Joe\'s. Grocery store sort of thing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I just generally like to work with people who are on smaller scale. Um, I know we\'ve got all kinds of, several, you know, just talented people and, you know, client services and things like that around our enterprise business. Uh, and I know we do a lot of, lot of great bit things. We\'ve got huge contracts and stuff like that, so obviously we\'re very invested in WordPress and [00:29:00] where it goes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We\'re very, you know, yeah. Interested in trying to like, make the, the hosting and sort of the website experience altogether better. Um, so I, I can\'t speak specifically to like what we\'re seeing. Sure. Right. Like that\'s probably for someone else to answer. Um, yeah. But I know that people, you know, there\'s, people are starting to ask questions like, Hey, what is, what does all this mean for us?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Right? And it\'s, yeah. Not necessarily our team at developer relations to answer those questions, but like, as a company, we need to say, Hey, this is what WordPress\'s trajectory means for enterprise type. Yeah, well a</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> lot of those boutique agencies I\'ve talked to at, in, in the post status community doing so cool things, I\'ve carved out these cool niches.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mm-hmm. , I didn\'t envision, um, you know, doing membership sites and e-commerce. With WordPress Pandemic took a lot of in-person, um, physical location businesses and they had to figure out how do we do web? And I thought, I didn\'t [00:30:00] like what they, everybody had to go through, but I, I like the fact that now a lot of these physical in-person businesses have, web presence, that ads, they have something that kind of extends their business.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I love hearing those stories. And I imagine that\'s a lot of the people you\'re talking about that you work with too, showing how they can, um, use this awesome tool called WordPress to really deliver excellent client work.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brian Gardner:</strong> Yeah, I, I haven\'t been asked a lot lately, like how, where do I see the successes happening sort of with people within WordPress and, and from a product side, but also from like a service side.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think, you know, we\'ve started to see this over the last five years or so, sort of this nicheing of sort of, uh, ca, you know, capabilities. Sarah Dunn, she\'s a, a WordPress person that a lot of people know. She sort of niched down into like the wedding industry and she like completely owns it there. And she was one of the first people that I really was like, you know, like intellectually you\'re like, oh, don\'t niche down.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Like be, you know, jack of all trades, [00:31:00] right? And so when I started to like really understand like where WordPress is going and I feel. Wholeheartedly that right now, like the people who are gonna rise above are the people who say, I, I don\'t wanna just build WordPress websites. I want to build education WordPress websites, or I want to, you know, be the e-commerce guru, or I want to become the l m S Ninja.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You know, like where you become known for like, and be an expert in. Providing a solution and with all of what WordPress can do, and this is sort of like talking about like blocks and plug-ins and things like that, is people who will go into a certain market and provide and just take WordPress beyond its sort of general capabilities and say, I\'m going to either build, you know, a plug-in suite or a block suite that caters to a very sub specific subset of people, and then that that\'s where the value truly comes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> So the, and, and I love that too. It\'s uh, 500 flavors times exponential of cool stuff that\'s happening that, [00:32:00] that I didn\'t even know was possible. But it is possible cuz they showed, they showed that you can do it. So I want to kind of turn our attention now as, so you\'ve seen a lot in WordPress over the time you\'ve been involved.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>What are some of the things, looking back, the hallmark. Things that have happened that, um, showcase who we are as a community and who this, what the software is in the world. As you reflect back, what are the things that come to mind? It can totally be theme and design related, or they can be general, but I\'m, I\'m asking these questions.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>A lot of people that have been around Sure. For a long time because I think it\'s very important to reflect back and go, this, this was. Now the second part would be re-imagining the future, right? So as you reflect back, what are those, what are a couple of those key things that moments in our WordPress history or whatever that really, um, made the difference?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brian Gardner:</strong> As you know, I have an 18 year old son and so a lot [00:33:00] of our time as a family can\'t believe it. By the way. I know it\'s talking about like how life used to be for us as you know, gen Xers and what life is like, you know, for kids nowadays. Right. Zach and I were just talking about like social media and how he just doesn\'t like the pressures that it brings, and I was like, well, back in our day.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Right. We didn\'t have to worry about that, even though there\'s benefits to it. Right. And so I think WordPress similar has some similar elements. Right. Like back when we started. There was a lot of true co competition, right? We talked about that word, sort of the co-opetition part of. We were all helping each other.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You and I were competiting competing, but like we\'re on Google Chat, like comparing notes on how we\'re succeeding and what we\'re doing and what works. And I feel like to some degree life was simpler back then, right? Sort of cliche. Um, it just, yeah, the complexities were lower. There were, there was, it was a smaller market, you know, obviously it wasn\'t 43% of the internet, but it was certainly enough, uh, you know, a handful of people doing things and.[00:34:00]</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think the success of the premium theme industry sort of sparked sort of the, the sort of like a, a marker here, sort of the, the initial growth of then the plugin market, right? Uh, gravity forms a good example. WooCommerce kinda like the early plugins that\'d say, Hey, you guys do themes, we\'re gonna do functionality, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We\'re gonna sort of find our niche. With, with providing, uh, functionality for people who are using WordPress. And so you kind of go into like the growth and the explosion of the, the plug-in market, which arguably could have dwarfed the theme market because there\'s just so many use cases for it. And so like, that\'s like the first thing I was like, okay, that\'s kind of like when we all started to grow up, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We kind of like, we graduated college and we\'re like, we\'re in the real world now. We\'ve all got real world businesses, like companies making millions of dollars doing things. This is not just like a. Software anymore that the, an ecosystem was formed. Um, and from that, like companies like WP Engine, you know, you know, uh, GoDaddy Page, Lee, all of the people, you know, you [00:35:00] see these acquisitions that so-and-so sold for a hundred million dollars.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I think people start to realize, okay, and that\'s when. Um, like a lot of stuff like that\'s when like sort of the greed comes into it, like the V C E O, there\'s real money to be made here, and so it starts to sort of taint the innocent ness of what we got to experience. I often tell Zach, I\'m like, man, life in the eighties was great and y\'all missed out, and I feel bad for that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You know? And I, I feel the same way with WordPress that some people who are like, I just started like three years ago and you know, like you jump in and it\'s like living in Tokyo. There\'s like ev people like bustling and like cars everywhere and like transportation and it\'s like, You know, the good old days like hope floats.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Remember that movie, you know? Mm-hmm. , like small town Americana. Like, I, I miss that. I, I still miss it. Even now, like, again, one of the reasons we sold studio press, I didn\'t know we could compete, and that was from a person who effectively created the market that he was trying to compete in. And so, [00:36:00] you know, Lots, lots of stuff that come into play and, and this dovetails into all of the, the iceberg and mental health stuff, which certainly is a real thing, but, uh, maybe for another, another podcast, but lots to deal with there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> I, I love the emphasis on cooperation that Spirit, WordPress and Open Source and those of us that were starting product companies back in then as a real spirit of cooperation and, um, I think we need a return to that today. Um, for sure. So I\'m so glad you mentioned that, um, because that, that\'s the, the software\'s cool community is what lights it up and makes it magic and.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>People going, I think the subpart of what I take from yours too. Innovation, an idea to do something that solves a problem that\'s really good for the business that has made the business of WordPress what it is today. Mm-hmm. . And I think there\'s challenges we [00:37:00] talked about with WordPress and um, and, and the web.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But that, I\'m excited because I think there\'s always somebody new coming into the community that has an idea, has something that\'s gonna break the innovation wall down. Um, I think about page builders like you mentioned earlier, beaver Builder and Elementor, and going, when I, when I left Ithe was trying to build, rebuild my site, and I went and used one of those tools and I thought, holy cow, this is.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We wanted what we tried to do. Yeah. But they did it really well, obviously by their success. Um, and you go, that\'s the cool stuff we need now a return back to that cooperation with innovation. Mm-hmm. and why I, what we do at post status is, I wanna always make sure we have a healthy, vibrant growing business ecosystem, which means we do want WordPress to be successful anyway, cuz we love it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We\'re zealots, you know, of open source software. Okay, so I, I [00:38:00] take first is cooperation. What</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brian Gardner:</strong> else? Ah, Sometimes it, it feels like a blur, you know? Yeah. , yeah. You know, community innovation, just a, a lot of that sort of dovetails in and around, you know, you know, it\'s an ebb and flow in just the, the product life cycle and the community life cycle.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, I\'m trying to think if there\'s any, anything specific. Um, I mean, Genesis for us was obviously a big thing. It really formulated the whole idea of an ecosystem of developers and builders rallying around a, a project, um, who themselves found, you know, co-opt. Petition to help. You know, rising tide lifts all boats, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You had a bunch of people who were developing with the same software, effectively competitors against one another, yet they were the ones who were like referring business to one another and helping answer questions in a forum on how to do stuff because. It really, and, and I\'ve really tried to operate this personally, is the sort of [00:39:00] pay it forward mentality, which is someone was there before you and they wrote about how to do it, and you learn from that and you figured out how to do it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so like the next person who comes along, um, should have some artifact of, of what you learn so that they can then learn how to do it and then, you know, sort of the, the chain goes on. Um, but yeah, I, you know,</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> What about with the software in particular? Um, obviously we were Drew, we, we, we met and we did this thing cause we were drawn to the software that was enabling us to do things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Are there from the software side, um, things you look back and go, you know what that point. Was a critical shift for, you know, for the core software that enabled something. And I, I have my own thoughts, but I\'m curious yours particularly because you, you\'ve always come at it with a design perspective and how do we, this workflow side of like, how do we produce these things that are maybe in our head with this software?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brian Gardner:</strong> [00:40:00] So I would say Genesis was one for me personally. And then obviously Gutenberg has been like the second big one. Genesis Al enabled me to do a lot of the things that were sort of pain points. Um, Specifically around beams and designs and websites, stuff like that. Um, so Genesis was like the first like extension of WordPress that said, oh, I can now do all these things that like, I felt were limitations, even though there were several, several things that were like suboptimal about it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, at the time it was all we could do. Why I\'m so excited now is because like all of those things that I thought were difficult, even though we could work our way through them, Is now possible, uh, to do, uh, there are things I wish I could do better, right? I wish I could build blocks. I wish I could build plugins.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so like, I have personally a lot of ideas that I wanna execute on. Um, but I\'m like, all I could do is mock \'em up in Figma, and that\'s the extent of it. And so I wish, I wish, yeah, I, I wish I knew how to build stuff better. Um, and I\'m sure a lot of [00:41:00] other people are, are sort of in the same. Well,</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> okay, so you mentioned Gutenberg with, I think it\'s critical.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I was curious if you would mention Gutenberg, but um, talk to me a little bit about Gutenberg and what you\'re seeing, particularly with that part of the project and into the future. What are your hopes and dreams for that, that the software goes to enable people like you, other designers, and even me, I would say still benefiting from all this, um, thoughts about Gutenberg now and into the.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brian Gardner:</strong> So Gutenberg for me, really helped make product building and product delivery a better and more delightful experience, right? Like I could build something that looked good, but telling somebody how to do it in the way it had to be done was really problematic. Documentation back in the, like, gotta open these files and do all these things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>That is really not great for somebody who\'s not versed in WordPress or PHP or anything like that, even though it was the only way to do it. And I, I some I sometimes, I, I have a local copy of the [00:42:00] Revolution, original Revolution theme, and every once in a while I just pop it open for nostalgic purposes and I\'m like, oh my God, how did we even live or thrive off of this software?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Which is extremely embarrassing to think about . Um, and so, What Gutenberg, when I say Gutenberg, we\'re talking, you know, what originally started out as, um, sort of the whole thing. Now it\'s actually the experimental plugin, but the whole idea of the, the black editing experience and full site editing really allows us as product builders to do things that we can turn over to people that they can then easily work with themselves.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And that\'s the part I think, That excites me the most is not only can I sort of work within the system and design something that that just kind of looks really well, you empower people who otherwise have not been able to sort of do that for themselves by saying, Hey, you could change colors like in the WordPress dashboard with like one click versus like, Having to open a style sheet, but then you gotta go through ftp, [00:43:00] right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cuz maybe some, you know, hosts shut down the ability to edit fol, like all of this stuff that was like, I don\'t, I still don\'t understand how we got to where we did because there were so many ju uh, hoops to jump through. But what excites me the most though is, is just the ability to. And now the pattern stuff and the, uh, the harmonization of the post and page editor screens, like the traditional WP admin and the site editor, which is essentially the, the merging of them just makes it feel like you\'re doing one thing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cause I think a lot of people were like, oh, well Squarespace is so good cuz it\'s like there\'s, there\'s parody, visual parody between front end and backend. Like I just go to my thing and I type. Hit save and it just looks the way it does on the web. WordPress is not like that, right? The classic editor was like literally just a Google doc, but like on the front end it was like this beautiful design.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>That separation is now closing, and we\'re getting to a point now where, um, at some point people are gonna be like, they won\'t know the front end from the back end, and it\'ll all be just like an experience and they\'ll be [00:44:00] empowered significantly more than they\'ve ever been. That\'s cool.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> I, yeah, I, I love hearing about things like, uh, block locking for instance.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mm-hmm. , that, that\'s showing responsiveness to the community that\'s really leveraging this as a tool. And, uh, the game over for me, for Gutenberg was I was trying to create a button and, you know, I mm-hmm. barely knew how to create HTML back in the day, and I went to look for a plugin only to realize Gutenberg does those things now.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yep. In natively. And then that was the point I was like, okay, this, now I\'m, I\'m stepping in gonna embrace, um, this thing called Gutenberg. And I\'m really curious to see, I know Frost and some of the work you\'ve done particularly was we need a base to start those workflows. Mm-hmm. to use some of these tools and uh, it\'ll be cool to.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>All of that be fleshed out, creatively innovated, you know, along the way to keep, [00:45:00] to keep this thing called WordPress growing. All right, Brian. Thanks man. This was really good nostalgia, but I really wanted to get your perspectives on the, these things. I think it\'s important for us at the 20 year mark, I mean, 20 years on the internet is ancient.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yes. You know, and, and so, you know, the question I keep going is how do we. Doing the good work of democratizing publishing on the web, some of these things, I, I not just because of nostalgia. I love the fact that WordPress could be used from a blogger all the way up to a Fortune 500 company. Mm-hmm. and, um, across the world to, to free f Web.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And, uh, I, I think now is the time for us to kind of remember some of these hallmarks that made us who we. And, um, and then reimagine what, what that looks like in the next phase. And I\'m excited for the WordPress community and that you\'re still here doing cool work, trying to cutting the edge, trying to like break things and push \'em past where they [00:46:00] want to be and show others that it can be done too.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So anyway, thanks Brian for being on today at Post Status draft. And uh, by the way, so what is the role at WP Engine that you do specifically ? Now,</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Brian Gardner:</strong> yes, I am a developer advocate on the developer relations team, which basically as it stands now, we have two different developer relations team. One is for headless WordPress, which is a little bit more on like the product side at WP Engine.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And our, our subset, which is uh, Nick Diego, Damon Cooken, myself, uh, Sam Munos is our community manager. We are. Essentially focused on the adoption of full site editing and the block editor. We use Frost as a way to sort of demonstrate that stuff. Uh, we\'re, we\'re supporting our, some of our product teams internally.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, but you know, when I was hired by Heather, uh, Bruner, our c e o, she, you know, asked if I would be energized, you know, in a, in a, a role of this sort. And I said, Heather, I love WordPress. I love design and I love community. So if this role sort of [00:47:00] touches all three of those in various forms, I\'m all for it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And. You know, it\'s been a great fit. I love working here and, um, really look forward to all the work we have ahead of us. Cool.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> Thanks Ryan for being here today. And thanks everybody else for listening in to another episode of the post status draft. And we\'re gonna press this 20. Um, this is a really good story and one I\'d like to, uh, hear again and again and, uh, it\'s still possible within WordPress in the future.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yep.</p>\n<p>This article was published at Post Status — the community for WordPress professionals.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 03 Mar 2023 14:15:32 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"Olivia Bisset\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:37;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:63:\"Post Status: Launching a WordPress Product in Public: Session 3\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:32:\"https://poststatus.com/?p=147828\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:73:\"https://poststatus.com/launching-a-wordpress-product-in-public-session-3/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:81304:\"<div class=\"is-layout-flow wp-block-group eplus-wrapper has-theme-palette-2-color has-theme-palette-8-background-color has-text-color has-background\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container\"><div class=\"wp-block-post-excerpt\"><p class=\"wp-block-post-excerpt__excerpt\"><a href=\"https://twitter.com/hirethere\">Corey Maass</a> and <a href=\"https://twitter.com/corymiller303\">Cory Miller</a> have been working to build a WordPress product live. Their plugin, <a href=\"https://crop.express/#welcome\">Crop.Express</a>, has been submitted to the repo. They discuss the outcome of their submission and continue to develop features. In addition, they discuss building brand identity, cultivating awareness, and developing authority as a needed business. </p></div>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-spacer eplus-wrapper\"></div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"yoast-reading-time__wrapper\"><span class=\"yoast-reading-time__icon\"></span><span class=\"yoast-reading-time__spacer\"></span><span class=\"yoast-reading-time__descriptive-text\">Estimated reading time:  </span><span class=\"yoast-reading-time__reading-time\">73</span><span class=\"yoast-reading-time__time-unit\"> minutes</span></p>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://poststatus.com/planet/feed/#h-transcript\">Transcript</a> ↓</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In this episode, <a href=\"https://twitter.com/hirethere\">Corey Maass</a> and <a href=\"https://twitter.com/corymiller303\">Cory Miller</a> share the results of submitting their WordPress plugin, <a href=\"https://crop.express/#welcome\">Crop.Express</a> to the repo. As they continue to build their product live, they develop branding, messaging, and strategy to validate their business and cultivate an audience.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Top Takeaways:</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><strong>Expanding Outwards.</strong> Repo offers inherent discoverability for WordPress products, but cultivating broader awareness is necessary for a product to succeed. Creating brand assets, a website, and a newsletter create conduits for growth.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Feel Out Your Brand. </strong>Be cautious not to box yourself in with branding. Consider what feeling you want people to get when using your product. Go a little deeper and have a little fun exploring the solutions and feelings you hope to offer as you create your branding. Move from literal to conception to better understand what defines your business.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Ring the Bell. </strong>Identify your customer’s problem and keep talking about it. Invite ideal users to talk about it. Leverage your personal platforms to highlight the pain point and how your product improves it. By telling that story and having others do the same, you start to build a case for your business.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n\n</div>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"eplus-wrapper\" id=\"h-mentioned-in-the-show\"><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f517.png\" alt=\"🔗\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> Mentioned in the show:</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://crop.express/\">Crop.Express</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.billoreilly.com/\">Bill O’Reilly</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://generatewp.com/\">Generate WP</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.canva.com/\">Canva</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://minesweeperonline.com/\">Minesweeper</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop.html\">Photoshop</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.stockunlimited.com/\">Stock Unlimited</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.fiverr.com/?source=top_nav\">Fiver</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.instagram.com/\">Instagram</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://unsplash.com/\">Unsplash</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/\">YouTube</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.paypal.com/us/home\">PayPal</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://contentjourney.com/\">Content Journey</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://zoom.us/\">Zoom</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"eplus-wrapper\" id=\"h-you-can-follow-post-status-and-our-guests-on-twitter\"><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f426.png\" alt=\"🐦\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> You can follow Post Status and our guests on Twitter:</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"eplus-wrapper\">\n<li><a href=\"http://twitter.com/coreymaass\">Corey Maass</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://twitter.com/corymiller303\">Cory Miller</a> (CEO, <a href=\"https://twitter.com/post_status\">Post Status</a>)</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://twitter.com/lemonadecode\">Olivia Bisset</a> (Intern, <a href=\"https://twitter.com/post_status\">Post Status</a>)</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"eplus-wrapper has-background\">The <strong>Post Status Draft</strong> podcast is geared toward WordPress professionals, with interviews, news, and deep analysis. <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f4dd.png\" alt=\"📝\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /><br /><br /><a href=\"https://poststatus.com/category/post-status-podcasts/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Browse our archives</a>, and don’t forget to subscribe via <a href=\"https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/post-status-draft-wordpress/id976403008\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">iTunes</a>, <a href=\"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS8ySkU5c2M4UA\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Google Podcasts</a>, <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/c/PostStatus\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">YouTube</a>, <a href=\"http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/krogsgard/post-status-draft-wordpress-podcast\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Stitcher</a>, <a href=\"https://wordpress-post-status-draft-podcast.simplecast.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Simplecast</a>, or <a href=\"https://feeds.simplecast.com/2JE9sc8P\">RSS</a>. <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f3a7.png\" alt=\"🎧\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /></p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"eplus-wrapper\" id=\"h-transcript\">Transcript</h2>\n\n\n\n<h2>Session 3 Corey & Cory Launch a WordPress Product Live &nbsp; </h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Cory Miller: [00:00:00] Oh yeah, of course. He, he gets so pissed off and, oh man, we, we<br />watched that a hundred times. Um, yeah, we\'re doing our live reference and stuff.<br />Cory Maass: Still reference it somewhat regularly. Yeah. , bill O\'Reilly, I guess.<br />Cory Miller: Bill O\'Reilly. That\'s it. Oh man.<br />Cory Maass: I couldn\'t have told you who it was, but,<br />yep. Classic, classic meme, classic quote, classic sample<br />Cory Miller: Okay. Tweak that out.<br />Yeah. Um, we were sound like 2009 when we started live streaming with you stream back in the<br />day and it was just sit on the green IKEA type couch. Put the laptop. And then one of the devs<br />were like, you ever seen the Billow rally clip? And I\'m [00:01:00] like, no. Now, I mean, I need to<br />see it. And then I was like, , just do it live.<br />Cory Maass: Yeah. I, uh, for a long time, cared a lot and still would try to, like, for probably five<br />years ago I was still doing like live DJ streaming DJ sets, which I\'m hoping to start doing again<br />soon. But like, was very meticulous about where I put the camera and the lighting and all that<br />stuff. And at some point it was like, you know what?<br />I need to just, I need to remove the friction from this and just make it easy. So it\'s like I just hit<br />like we\'re doing here, hit record, hit stream and go, and whatever happens, happens, you know,<br />but it\'s, it removed all hesitation to be like, you know what, it\'s four o\'clock. I, I don\'t wanna work<br />for the next hour.<br />Let me, you know, let me do something. So I\'ll bang out a DJ set and if people watch, [00:02:00]<br />they watch and they\'ll catch it later, you know? And it was just more fun that way.<br />Cory Miller: I, I love that you\'re open to this because I, it\'s weird, this weird thing. It\'s like<br />whether I\'m riding or trying to write something or do a start a new habit or whatever, it\'s just, I<br />like one having a partner to collaborate with, but two is kinda like putting it out there, you know?<br />Mm-hmm. just putting your stuff out there as raw as it might be. And I\'m really happy that you<br />were open and interested in doing this cause I, I think it\'s fun, you know, not a lot of Lindsay and<br />I did a podcast several years ago and it was just a time remember? And Oh yeah, we had some<br />friends over a couple weeks ago and they\'re like, yeah, we, we did that because, um, we, we<br />listened to a couple episodes and I thought, um, How maybe refreshing it is to hear other<br />people, you know, not that it\'s [00:03:00] comparing, but you\'re just like, oh, you and I doing this<br />Friday,<br />Cory Maass: it\'s not a big deal.<br />It\'s not super polished. Yeah. Yeah. I\'ve always been, I\'ve always been a DIY person and<br />unfortunately it, it is a bit of a bad habit, um, at points. It, it takes the fun out of things for me, but<br />I, I\'ve always been a doer and I\'ve always seen things, and then I think it, I think it\'s sort of the,<br />the way that I\'m an extrovert is, or part of the way that I\'m an extrovert is the, like I learn by<br />doing or I, I learned by replicating or whatever.<br />So it was like, but when I start, like I, I love, mostly what I listen to is electronic music, but a lot<br />of it is now ruined for me because I sit there and dissect it. Um, and, and try to figure out how I<br />would emulate it. And I\'ve, I\'ve managed to sort of untangle some of that, but a lot of it for a long<br />time was like, I can\'t, I can\'t just go to a party and enjoy, [00:04:00] like, I\'m sitting there trying to<br />figure out how I would, you know, create, recreate it or, or, you know, do make something<br />similar.<br />And same with most Art on the wall sculpture, things like that. Like, I struggle with that, you<br />know?<br />Cory Miller: Yeah. It, I love the music side, what we, and for everybody listening. We talked<br />yesterday, uh, Corey had a, came on to talk through something I was working on not related to<br />this product, and gave some incredible experience shares and some advice.<br />And when you were talking about music yesterday, I was like, I\'ve never been that type. I\'ve got<br />the most eclectic music fan, but recently I\'ve been getting into. , um, sound bowls in<br />frequencies, you know? Mm-hmm. . And, uh, it\'s been really fun. Um, and I just feel like, like I<br />want to ban, I want to do my sound bowl cause it\'s kind of my sort of meditation [00:05:00] Nice.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Where my crazy monkey mind\'s going on. And so when he talked about music, I was like, all<br />right, now we\'re gonna jam about music at some point.<br />Cory Maass: So. Well, and this is where we start, uh, with make the obvious joke of like, oh,<br />what\'s, what\'s your favorite key? What, what\'s your favorite note? You know? Yeah. Because all<br />I can picture is the sound bowl.<br />Like I\'ve got an a minor, but I really, or a, an a, a sharp, but I really like the a, you know?<br />Cory Miller: Yes. So, okay, geeking out for just a second on this. So the, I don\'t know the better<br />term right now to talk about, but the internal and the spiritual side to mm-hmm. frequencies and<br />vibrations. Um, I went to a, I had it over the summer, I got to do a sound bath.<br />Cory Maass: Nice .<br />Cory Miller: And I was like, oh my God, this is the best thing, best thing on earth. I want more of<br />it. So the, these samples, um, and stuff, it\'s just like, so when you said and then mapping them,<br />because my music [00:06:00] education is like eighth grade, uh, you know, and so mapping<br />those to key notes and stuff, cause I\'ve been trying to figure out, okay.<br />I, I will digress. I\'m sorry, , I shouldn\'t digress anymore, but<br />Cory Maass: No, it\'s fine.<br />Cory Miller: Um, no, I\'ll take the rest of the hour and we\'re supposed to be talking about the<br />product, so , I\'ll keep, I\'ll help keep, meet myself in rain, in check here. Um, okay, session<br />number three.<br />Session number three is going. Um, okay, so here\'s the update. We, yesterday you, we, you<br />submitted the plugin to the repo.<br />We\'ve got that episode on, uh, YouTube and, um, so we\'re kind of in the waiting. For what<br />comes back from the approval processes, maybe? Or are we or are we ho ho.<br />Cory Maass: Um, so I, I want to call you out a little bit cause I think that again, the, you know,<br />in, in the, at the 10,000 foot level [00:07:00] or the transparency level or whatever, like you had<br />set a deadline for yourself for the read me last week and I could tell you were struggling with<br />like, the perfectionism, perfectionism of it or the, you know, I don\'t, I\'m not sure what I should do<br />here.<br />And so when you pinged me yesterday with, we were, we were going over some ideas, um, and<br />doing revisions and stuff, again, I could, I got a sense that you were not totally stuck because<br />you were working on it, but that we could be more productive by doing it together. And so we<br />jumped on a call and that was why.<br />You know, we\'re, we\'ve been trying to do this regularly, Wednesdays at noon, but we were<br />joking that that was, if this is session three, that was session 2.9 because it was, you know, not<br />our regularly scheduled program slot, but we got, it was another very productive hour. And,<br />[00:08:00] and another way that we helped each other through a process, because then it was,<br />you know, we did some really good brainstorming.<br />I, all of which I think is on film, that\'s, wow, I\'m aging myself. All of that is on YouTube. Um, but<br />talking through, just sort of brainstorming general ideas, distilling it down to a, a few sentences<br />enough so that we could just get it out the door. And at which point we were like, okay, it\'s,<br />we\'re, we\'re good enough.<br />Let\'s just do this. Um, so. Yes. Um, I actually read, uh, you tweeted, you know, we submitted the<br />plugin and I said, and we heard back, you know, what did they say? I tried to build a little<br />suspense, so, you know, for the thousands of people watching and listening right now, um, you<br />know, on the edge of their seats.<br />So, uh, we heard back within the same day, uh oh, okay. Which is really impressive. Um, and,<br />uh, the [00:09:00] only thing they needed us to change was we used Generate WP to create<br />that readme. And in so doing generate, WP created, um, one of the plugin tags or, you know,<br />line items at the top, um, was. One called Update URI and they don\'t want that included in<br />plugins that are included in the repo.<br />Cory Miller: Hmm.<br />Cory Maass: So the only, if I\'m reading the email correctly, the only thing we needed to do was<br />remove that one header and then resubmit it. .<br />Cory Miller: Okay.<br />Cory Maass: Which is, which is, there are a couple of things that I wanna say about that. One<br />is, uh, you know, we did a good job, uh, of writing simple enough code or whatever, but more<br />importantly to me, We, I\'ve never, so I\'ve, I\'ve submitted I think like three or four plugins, not a</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:00] lot, but I\'ve never had them come back and not say like, oh, you missed a place<br />where you need to sanitize or use anot or some, you know, usually, usually it\'s some little bit of<br />security, um, type stuff that I, I miss cause I\'m just kind of banging through.<br />I think in terms of MVP, like, I will, you know, clean this up later. Um, but we, by submitting<br />basically an MVP, a single more or less simple version, uh, I think is, you know, it, it limits the<br />likelihood that they\'re gonna go, oh, well, you know, there\'s, there are these big problems or<br />there\'s a hundred problems.<br />So, um, so fingers crossed they do say, um, do, do, do we believe this to be the complete<br />review of all issues found in your plugin. So make the corrections, review the, in the code,<br />resubmit it. I threw it up on, um, [00:11:00] my P cloud for them to download. And then, cause I<br />know that they run the code through some automated stuff, but I do know that a human also<br />looks at it, so there\'s a chance that they come back.<br />I might be, I\'m jinxing myself that we did so well because maybe they, they discovered<br />something on the second review or something like that. But, um, but yeah, so within a day did a,<br />uh, one line revision and sent it back. And so maybe this week we\'ll have this thing up in the<br />repo.<br />Cory Miller: That\'s great. That\'s great news.<br />Um, you know, I think yesterday you mentioned like first time I\'ve, or first time in a long time<br />since I\'ve submitted a plugin and I was like, I\'ve never done that process. I don\'t even think I<br />knew, you know, Never done a read me, never submitted it myself. Team did, of course. But um,<br />no. So all that, so that was really interesting seeing it behind the scenes.<br />And I gotta say over 15 years I\'ve been doing WordPress is, uh, we\'ve [00:12:00] come a long<br />way, you know? Yeah. Um, uh, a lot of things have, you know, there\'s always things we got, you<br />know, people grab about and we got things that, you know, aren\'t the great, the best, but I love<br />the spirit of like, we continue to move forward as a community.<br />And so, but it was interesting doing the Readme file because, um, I can\'t imagine as a<br />developer, you spend all this time just trying to write code, get the functions, you know, to do<br />what she wanted to do. And then you have this read me stuff and I was like, okay, if I\'m not a<br />developer and I\'m having a block about this, I can\'t imagine others. But you made the process<br />awesome, and I really appreciate that. That was one thing. I do like co-working sessions like<br />that. I really have found in the last couple years just coworking if somebody\'s like, Hey, could<br />you do this? I get in my own head space and blocked mm-hmm. , and I\'m like, sometimes I\'m<br />like, could you just be there?<br />Right. Uh, but yesterday you [00:13:00] were given good directio n.<br />Cory Maass: Well, and, and I\'ve, I\'ve had a little bit of experience with it, but it\'s also like, it was,<br />I found it easier than I often do because it was, I wasn\'t context switching. Like what I often am<br />doing is I\'m banging out code and then I\'m like, okay, I\'m ready to submit this.<br />And I\'m like, crap, there\'s a whole laundry list of other things that I need to do or, or want to do a<br />logo, uh, the support link that we set up, like all that kind of stuff. And, and it\'s, that\'s, that\'s the<br />hardest part of being a solopreneur, which is usually my situation of like, okay. And I was even<br />doing this this morning for some, for a different product of like, I needed to do a little code<br />update, but then I needed to tweak the logo, but then I needed to, you know, update the email<br />that gets sent when somebody purchases.<br />But then I need to, and it\'s like, man, you\'re just, it\'s tough being all over the place. And so you<br />and I sitting down and [00:14:00] going, we\'re gonna do the Read Me, you know, and, and went<br />a little deep on like the beginning of, um, what is our wording? What is our message? What is<br />our pro, um, uh, our problem statement?<br />What is our, you know, I, I was actually able to do that, which I\'m not always, isn\'t always the<br />case. Yeah.<br />Cory Miller: It\'s like we\'re a two person mastermind.<br />Well, um, okay, so. We\'re there, I mean, very close final stages of getting the plugin. Um, we<br />talked a little bit about this, but what\'s our list of things we got next? Um, I, so we have the<br />website and that\'s one part of it. Mm-hmm. , um, we, we talked about that. We need to have,<br />we\'ll do some changes like there, there\'s the SaaS side of it, you know, just being able to<br />[00:15:00] crop it online. Um, but now we\'re gonna potentially get people coming to the website.<br />We got the email newsletter set up.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Actually, I should check that. I forget our list. But, um, what\'s on, what\'s on your mind for next<br />steps? I, I tend to think in the marketing is website and email list. So to me it\'s<br />Cory Maass: yeah, well, expanding outwards, right? So starting with the plugin in the repo,<br />which we talked about a couple, like last week, I think of like, because of the inherent<br />discoverability, and obviously because we are talking about it, we\'re gonna start to get a trickle<br />of users.<br />Um, and so we want to be able to, so, so in order to make the best impression inside the,<br />[00:16:00] the.org plugin repo or plugin directory, they want to, want us to call that, call it now.<br />Um, we need images, like banners, and so, uh, I can, I can create those pretty easily, easily in<br />Canva. Um, we don\'t actually need a logo yet.<br />We, I, it\'s more fun if we, you know, it\'s kinda like buying a domain, like creating a logo to me is<br />really fun. Um, or, or having one made or ha whatever process we wanna do. But for the time<br />being like we just, you know, there\'s a mast head essentially, and so we can just literally write<br />the words crop express in our, in.<br />Um, you know, whatever tagline we, we wanna start with. Um, but I feel like that, because the,<br />by default, if you don\'t do that, then you get, um, the, the repo will do these sort of plaid, you<br />know, just sort of placeholder [00:17:00] images and um, you know, some of the best plugins out<br />there created 10 years ago still have those.<br />But where we\'re starting and we we\'re essentially starting to create a brand, now is the time to<br />already create something. And again, we can swap them out as often as we want. Yeah. Um,<br />but to have a little square icon or image or something, and then that masthead, I think is, we<br />wanna do sooner than later.<br />Cory Miller: Mm-hmm. ,<br />Cory Maass: um, which I think, you know, this is always the. You know, there\'s no, what was it<br />back with Windows? Like you couldn\'t delete, um, Minesweeper because it was somehow<br />connected to the Notes app or something, you know, this kind of thing. Like there\'s this, all this<br />interconnectivity, but it\'s like by create, also by creating the Masthead Indoor, starting to think<br />about a logo that\'s gonna help us continue to refine some of the marketing language.<br />Um, [00:18:00] so to me that\'s the, all that stuff is kind of on my mind. cause I think that some<br />people are going, going to, fewer people are gonna be going to crop.express the website right<br />now because we\'re not selling anything. We\'re not doing, we\'re not pushing anybody towards it<br />kind of thing yet, you know?<br />Cory Miller: Mm-hmm.<br />the only thing I want to just emphasize from the marketing side is, uh, as soon as we can<br />having, um, conduits to get people to sign up for our newsletter. Yeah. Um, just so we have a<br />base, it\'s what I. For sure is a center point strategy. Um, so when we talk about logo and<br />masthead and the brand, one of the things maybe for discussion for us is what do we think the<br />minimum?<br />And it may just be those two, right? But minimum things we need for someone to be able to go,<br />I\'m gonna try that out. And then we\'ve talked [00:19:00] heavily about like, the intention for this<br />first is to get feedback. Mm-hmm. , um, in what they want next. Like give them enough of a<br />spark to go, I want more. Yeah. Um, and we\'ve, we\'ve got that in plugin.<br />Um, the request a feature type thing. Mm-hmm. . So I\'m thinking of what\'s our next step?<br />Minimums. So we\'ve got logo and masthead. We need, we need that. Um, We already got email<br />newsletter. We talked a little bit about website, the initial promotion I have down here. Anything<br />else on your mind about next steps that we missed?<br />Not yet. Nope.<br />Cory Maass: Okay. Again, I think it\'s just, yeah, starting to fill out. It\'s like we, we have the<br />engine now, you know, what is, what does the car look like? And we don\'t have to build all the<br />other models of car and we don\'t have to build the [00:20:00] dealership and we, you know, all<br />that\'s down the road. But to get started, like, yeah, we need, you know, just, just sort of to start<br />expanding outwards.<br />Cory Miller: Okay. So from logo and mass head standpoint, um, I try to fancy myself as design<br />and it\'s more like I can design taste. I\'m not, if I fancy myself a designer at some point in my life<br />now I\'m like, Nope, not a designer anymore. just one with hopefully good taste. Um, I do have<br />an outlet. Like you, you did mention Camba.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I do have an outlet to get something designed. Um, so what\'s your preferences and everything<br />on design? From a brand standpoint? I like personally clean, modern. Yeah. You know, I, I think<br />about the iconic cropping, you know, right. Cropping.<br />Cory Maass: I did try to get away from, um, like, so, [00:21:00] so what I\'ve been doing lately is,<br />um, like I, I started in the late nineties, you know, when you would literally design a website in<br />Photoshop and then cut it up.<br />Um, and so I still have, uh, the technical chops just like you. At one point considered myself a<br />designer. I still care a lot about it, but I, I know I do not begin to, it\'s a muscle and I, that muscle<br />has atrophied. So, um, but what I, what I will often do now, because again, I, I can tweak<br />something pretty readily as like the, the scissors icon that I have on the website now was clip art<br />that I found.<br />Like I have a lifetime license to Stock Unlimited. So I went in there and I was like, you know,<br />what is cropping? Um, You know, scissors or something like that. I found a vector graphic that I<br />like, I tweaked it slightly so that it looked [00:22:00] more the way I wanted it. A little friendlier,<br />like I rounded the edges and stuff, and that was, you know, that was V1 of the logo.<br />Um, I, I got to have fun choosing some colors and, you know, playing in, um, illustrator or, I<br />guess at this point I use Affinity Designer, but you know, it\'s not, um, not much more than that<br />because I honestly, I now consider pretty much everything an MVP including logos until they\'re<br />not, you know, if, if once it\'s very important that we have brand recognition, then, then we lock it<br />down.<br />But until then, um, okay. I also frequently will use fiber. Like I\'ll go on and, um, hire multiple<br />people. and then take all the, I usually think of it more as like a, a brainstorming session and I\'ll<br />take all the concepts. I very rarely have had somebody come back with something that I\'m like,<br />that\'s it. Done.<br />Mm-hmm. . Um, [00:23:00] so I\'m, you know, that gives you an idea of sort of my, my usual<br />method. The only other thing that, that I have cared about lately is, oh, well, two things. One, I<br />did try intentionally to get away from the iconic cropping icon. Um, just I think as much as an<br />exercise of like, can we go beyond that or, or can we allude lightly to that without it being the<br />obvious, um, you know, icon that everybody expects.<br />And then the other thing is, I\'ve been trying very hard to use color palettes that are a little<br />outrageous, especially on the web. Um, and so like I\'ve been, lately, I\'ve been googling eighties<br />color palette, , eighties colors, and then using those, so it\'s like hot pink, magenta or, you know,<br />um, neon colors or, yeah.<br />And, or, um, another app, I, I, same sort of thing. I googled seventies and it\'s, so, it\'s like the<br />[00:24:00] burnt orange, you know, but it\'s just like, I don\'t want the, the standard, like the<br />WordPress blue hurts me right at this point. Like, it, it is what it is and it, it is what it should be,<br />but how do we stand out, you know?<br />Yeah. So, um, and I think, you know, we\'ll, we\'ll pick and choose how much we, if we go totally<br />outrageous, how much we actually put that into the plugin, but at least for logo branding, stuff<br />like that. Like how do we. Stand out.<br />Cory Miller: So, yeah. Hey, I\'m good with that. I mean, you go hot pink. I\'m, I\'m fine with that<br />too, you know?<br />Yeah. Um, it\'s just fun. Do you want to take the, the lead then on, on the logo and masted<br />sounds like you got some energy and kind of vision for<br />Cory Maass: Yeah, I, I have fun. I have fun doing it. I think the, I could use help with, um, I<br />mean if we\'re [00:25:00] content with the scissors and we just want to change the colors or<br />maybe we don\'t even want to change the colors, like then we just run with what we\'ve got.<br />It definitely could use some punching up and I\'d love another pair of eyes. Um, if not that, then<br />I\'d, you know, I think it would be great if we. 15 minutes together or some time apart just going,<br />what are conceptually, what do we wanna do or what, what would be fun and unique or what<br />would be weird and outrageous or, you know, more concepts.<br />Yeah. Because again, like, I just wanted something. Yeah,<br />Cory Miller: absolutely. Um, I, I mean, I like the eighties thing you\'re talking about, and you<br />know, I was trying to think like, what are the modern kind of thoughts when you think about<br />cropping? Uh, and I, I think about, um, Instagram, like their version of cropping is not the, the<br />crop symbol.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It\'s more like a square with the rule of [00:26:00] thirds in there. Mm-hmm. . And so I tend to<br />think like, how do people today, what are they familiar with? And Instagram seems like, you<br />know, most I would. Think most people have used Instagram and know what that cropping tool<br />is. Um, how that\'s like, it\'s, isn\'t it, let me like, real quick.<br />Cory Maass: It seems like I, I like what you\'re saying because it\'s, it\'s also Instagram sort of set<br />the standard for we accept squares and now they accept other, other things rectangles. But um,<br />it\'s, it is the modern version of, or the updated concept of like, you know, initially it was like, it is<br />a square, it is whatever it was initially, you know, it\'s 800 pixels full stop.<br />Cory Miller: Yeah. And now I\'m trying to like, yeah, it\'s, it\'s kind of the rule of thirds and you<br />[00:27:00] just pinch in out, I thought, how does Camba do it? Or does Camba do Camba does<br />cropping in there somewhere?<br />Cory Maass: They do. I mean, but it\'s to me, It\'s this, it\'s very sim it\'s the same concept as like<br />Photoshop or Illustrator or whatever, where you\'ve got the four circles.<br />And so you can grab a corner and, and you can, you can move the mask or you can resize the<br />whole thing. But it\'s, it\'s very free. And, and I think I, you bringing up Instagram I think is a really<br />interesting, it\'s not a metaphor, but a comparison in some ways because we are crop express<br />sort of. The point is that we don\'t let you just free form crop.<br />We like lock you down to correct image size and aspect ratio. So<br />Cory Miller: yeah, we, we [00:28:00] guide you in the best, right? So you don\'t have to make<br />mistakes. But we keep, I think we keep betting, our first feature request is gonna be a custom<br />dimension.<br />Cory Maass: Which is fine, but because again, it\'s like you plug in something and then lock it<br />down.<br />So it\'s, um, having fun running with the concepts of, you know, in the eighties, I think you and I<br />were both, uh, in elementary school, um, which brings to mind, um, uh, safety scissors, like the<br />little kid safety, scissors. Um, which is also a thing that was like, it locked you down, like you<br />couldn\'t stab your friend.<br />Um, not that we didn\'t try, um, no running with scissors. Um, I\'m picturing like cutting out<br />cardboard, um, construction paper. Um, and so it\'s like that leads me to the thinking of like, what<br />is the result we\'re talking about of cropping, which is obviously an image, but it\'s like, is there<br />something [00:29:00] with um, uh, shapes or, um, What\'s that, that game where you have, you<br />know, it\'s like telegram or something, a gram where you\'ve, you know, you put the triangle and<br />the square together and make a house kind of thing.<br />Cory Miller: Um, oh yeah. It\'s funny, I just googled this and I saw one of these up here and I<br />can\'t find it, but I had like kind of a safety scissors, if you can see that right there. Oh,<br />Cory Maass: yep, yep. Right there. Yeah. See, I like that to me is already a little cuter than the<br />ones that I initially<br />Cory Miller: grabbed. This is, see how that, see how this little thing right here?<br />That\'s what I was thinking Instagram was, but I couldn\'t find it on my phone. But this is what I<br />was thinking. It\'s like, this is pretty familiar, you know? Yep. However it needs to match. I think<br />probably something in there, but I almost, I don\'t know. I, I don\'t want to get too, uh, particular<br />about it because I think you, [00:30:00] you got the grass.<br />I will say, we know we have a bigger. Vision than just this, in this realm of photo manipulation,<br />editing, getting the right thing in the design. Um, so I, you know, I\'m pretty open. It\'s like, I feel<br />like the feeling we want, this is maybe what we could talk about, the feeling we want is I rely on<br />that. Oh, that made that easier.<br />You know, the relief, the being able to kind of get to the finished pr, their finished outcome, that<br />our thing is just one part of that. But you know what I mean, we talked a lot about this with our,<br />uh, e-commerce product back in the day, is what\'s the feeling we want for people to get? And<br />we want a e-commerce to be fun and feel lighter than just like, oh my God, it\'s like I\'m filling out<br />a tax form, you know, , that\'s what it kind of feels like.<br />Um, so any thoughts? Any thoughts there? [00:31:00] And, and we\'re going a little deeper than<br />we probably normally would to, but kind of fun to me to, to talk about these things.<br />Cory Maass: Yeah, agreed. Like, I mean, conceptually, this is, this is definitely some of the fun<br />part. Um, I liked what you said about, so we were, we talked a lot yesterday about workflow, and<br />you said just now the, the feeling of making things simpler.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I\'m like, okay, so if you\'ve got a laundry list of things you have to do, however that\'s<br />represented, a list of things vertically or blocks side by side, and then like somehow<br />representing the, the removal of items in the middle so that it\'s, you go from A to B or you know,<br />A to Z. In four steps instead of 20.<br />How, how many letters are there in the alphabet? 26, I think. But anyway, you get the idea, you<br />know, so I\'m, um, and that [00:32:00] what you just showed with the, um, the grid, the cropping<br />grid, um, I\'m picturing, you know, two squares with the cropping grid in the middle. That kind of<br />represents like we re we removed something from, you know, from this line of blocks, but you<br />also get the sense of like, oh, you\'re cropping a thing in the middle.<br />Um, you know, so some of these visual concepts. The other thing that came to mind was on<br />that, with that grid, like the first masthead we do, I think should have the cropping grid on it. Just<br />because that way, like you said, it\'s a visual visually, you immediately go, oh, that\'s we\'re<br />cropping image.<br />Cory Miller: This is a version of what we were doing yesterday with the read me files.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We\'re trying to paint a picture. Right. And I think you just nailed it. Is that some signal, image-<br />wise on masthead of like, that\'s, this is what that does. Like there\'s not even words. It\'s like</p>\n\n\n\n<p>recognition. Mm-hmm. . And I think that\'s pulling it in and you know, I [00:33:00] was thinking if<br />we step up a second, we go, it seems like a lot of the things we\'re talking about with this product<br />in the future direction is um, big category banner is content production or content.<br />Content production. And then we step down and we drill down to that. And it\'s like you talked<br />about expanding out. I got expand way out then to come back in is content, content production,<br />workflow, images, that seems like everything we\'ve talked about is like in that image category.<br />So that. Some visual display to connect.<br />I\'m in the visual, like I just Googled, uh, affinity Designer. Cause I was like, well if you, I wanna<br />see this. I\'ve, I was a early Photoshop user. Yeah. But it\'s like that feeling of, it\'s a tool for<br />creation. Mm-hmm. You know? Mm-hmm. or mani manipulation is not the right board, but, you<br />know, um, I think connects it down.[00:34:00]<br />So I, I dig that.<br />Cory Maass: Yeah. And I, I like what you\'re saying about, I think the top conceptual, like where<br />you go from literal to conceptual is there\'s a line above image, photo or image images. It\'s like, I<br />don\'t think we we\'re going to apply the word crop to text or something else. And so it\'s like<br />literally we are going to be.<br />Cropping images expand that we\'re manipulating images, expand that dealing with images,<br />expand that you get conceptual of content creation or something. So yeah, I like the idea of<br />buying in now to something that, that draws a, draws that line that says we\'re talking about<br />photo or image images and that get, that lets us, you [00:35:00] know, then we can do anything<br />we want down the road.<br />Because like we\'ve also talked about, we don\'t wanna lock ourselves into features. We want our<br />users to lock us into features or inversely let us expand other things. But it\'s like, I don\'t, if we<br />end up talking about. AI words, then to me that\'s, we, we then go, okay, are we starting another<br />plugin? Um, you know, but we could do AI images and that would still be in the con maybe in<br />the concept context of Crop Express.<br />Cory Miller: Holy crap. Dude. Now you\'re gonna get my mind like buzzing. But the AI images<br />thing, future roadmap mm-hmm. for discussion there. Because what just I, I like anchoring this<br />back on this, just like you\'re doing different ways. Um, when we originally talked, we were like,<br />what could this be in flow as you\'re going [00:36:00] down mm-hmm.<br />um, you know, and be like, okay, there it is. Um, I click an image in Gutenberg code editor and<br />then I get to upload media and the cropping tools are right there, and I think. Native. I think that<br />is a good experience. That\'s how I do content production. People have bigger teams, of course<br />they\'re gonna have other sophisticated tool Sure.<br />Tools, but we\'re kind of in this almost everyday content producer, you know, which is a lot of<br />buckets. Yeah. But gosh, that\'s compelling. The AI image side is like, that\'s how we started this.<br />And we decided our big critical decision was to pull it out just to the featured image, to start<br />there, see where our demand went.<br />But if we go back to that original kind of thought was, put it in the flow. You know, I start with a<br />headline, then I start writing and I add my, you know, images as I go [00:37:00] thing. That AI</p>\n\n\n\n<p>potential could really be cool. Oh yeah. Um, with all the open AI talk and the channel we have in<br />Slack, I\'m, I\'m really.<br />Curious, like I wanna run into this whole new field and see what\'s there, . Um, so like this image<br />side of that is really compelling because I don\'t know about you, this is about the product<br />experience, but finding an image is a terrible experience. That\'s why I don\'t do it. So<br />downstream, if we think about this image AI thing, it\'s like how can we help someone get the<br />image effect, the visual placeholder guide, part of the story you\'re writing in your post content? I<br />think that really fits to put on the future discussion side.<br />Absolutely. But, but this is my process and I\'d like to hear yours cause I want to hear, I want to<br />hear more user stories about how they do it. cause if we can get in [00:38:00] line with enough<br />people and understand how they do it, then we got innovation ideas all day, then we can just<br />help them with their workflow. So, I don\'t do this regularly, but I\'m like, okay, I want an image.<br />I\'ve, to me, I write and that\'s an exploration. Oftentimes, I don\'t have a formula or a framework. I<br />think a lot of PE other people do, specifically like Lindsay at Content Journey, they have a whole<br />workflow. But finding something in there. This would be interesting, Corey. Don\'t let me<br />daydream too much.<br />Okay. This is conceptual. I have no idea how it would get done necessarily, but imagine you<br />write, you write your post and you\'re like, you want the featured image crop express, click the<br />button, it looks at some keywords. Oh, for sure. And then develop something for that, you know,<br />featured image thing. That would be, I mean, I know we\'re still early in all the M N J I stuff, but<br />like finding the right prompt for that, that [00:39:00] comes out with something interesting.<br />Oh yeah. Saves a ton of time, like, oh yeah, you mentioned your service. I, I\'ve used Unsplash<br />in the part and I always get frustrated cause I\'m like, nothing matches my style. Nothing. It just<br />feels hokey, you know? Yeah.<br />Cory Maass: And that\'s, so, yeah, it\'s, it\'s definitely something I think would be fun to explore<br />down the road and, and certainly fits in the, the overall, the problems we\'re trying to solve of<br />making content creation easy and filling out, you know, that last mile, the last mile is the hardest<br />mile kind of thing.<br />Writing the blog post, I won\'t say is the easy part, but it\'s the part that I think you\'re absolutely<br />right, Most people don\'t go and find a picture. They wanna, they wanna write about, you know, I<br />don\'t know, house plants or something. They don\'t go find a picture of a house plant and then<br />write the blog post.<br />They come to WordPress to write a blog post about house plants and then are like, okay, I<br />better put an [00:40:00] image in here of a house plant. And then, Just as you said, like there\'s,<br />there\'s endless scrolling and discovery of find, trying to find the fir the, the perfect image. Um,<br />that could go in a lot of different directions and, and could, could be huge, could be a really big<br />lift or a tiny lift depending on what we wanted to do.<br />Like there are already services that will, that take advantage of like Unsplash and some of the<br />other open free ones that do basic keyword matching. Um, so I think we just kind of keep an eye<br />on that space or that functionality. Um, cause it, cause yeah, combine discoverability or um, uh,<br />finding images, but with the way that AI is manipulating images.<br />So you\'re like, you know, go look at all the images of house plants on Unsplash and, and<br />whatever other public ones, but now generate something in the style of da Vinci boom. You<br />[00:41:00] know? And, and keep regenerating until you get one you like, and then, you know,<br />so, but that\'s, you know, the, the lift of that is not something we can do for free.<br />I\'ll say .<br />Cory Miller: Yeah, exactly. We need somebody to pay us. Okay.<br />Cory Maass: But yeah, but I do, I, you know, all of this exercise, it\'s like, okay, yes, I won\'t let<br />you daydream for the next two hours, but all of this, you know, us mentioning different random<br />things, I think helps dictate, like, at the beginning of this conversation, I was like, oh, scissors<br />are fine, let\'s run with it.<br />But, you know, if our hope is down the road, we\'re expanding way beyond literally making an<br />image from this size to this size, then a then scissors is probably not the, the metaphor, the<br />visual metaphor that we want. It\'s not inclusive enough, so, you know, [00:42:00] What, what<br />other visuals, what other icons or objects represent the visual, you know, an eyeball or glasses<br />or, um, I don\'t, you know, a camera.<br />Yeah, I mean, that\'s Instagram.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cory Miller: Yeah. So just segue in for a second to prep our conversations. We\'re making<br />incremental progress and a lot of this stuff. So we got one Lego and mast head. You\'re gonna<br />start with that. We\'ll go, come back and forth. What things can I be working on? Um, two,<br />Cory Maass: I I would love you to start thinking about a first, a couple of things.<br />One, um, this is the stuff that I, I understand conceptually, but cannot. Ever wrap my head<br />around is like, how do we, is the, what is it? The, there are two [00:43:00] dimensions. There\'s<br />three dimensions of, of space, but the fourth dimension is time, right? So I have a real hard time<br />with time with, uh, we get, we get to the point where we\'ve got a logo that\'s fine, a masthead.<br />That\'s fine. A read me, we\'ve, we\'ve, you know, some people are trying out, you know, then, like<br />you said, um, promotion and what does that look like and what does that look like over time?<br />Um, if we\'re gonna start emailing people as, as people join the mailing list, um, you know, what<br />is the monthly newsletter or whatever the cadence we decide on, what, what is, what does six<br />months of that content look like?<br />I mean, obviously like, I\'m not expecting paragraphs, but just like conceptually, you know? Um,<br />and then, and then also I think, um, How do you envision the evolution of the website?<br />[00:44:00] Where again, right now it is a single purpose, you know, single page app, but that still<br />needs to be on the site somewhere. But obviously we wanna start migrating the website to be a<br />landing page to hold hands with the plugin.<br />Um, you know, and again, we\'re not, I\'m not talking huge major redesign tomorrow, but it\'s the<br />like, cause it\'s, it\'s you saying, okay, if, if the goal is, you know, we\'re ramping up content output<br />within the next couple of months, then, then you need a place to put that content. So within the<br />next couple of months, we need the website.<br />you know, roughly to have these five things, a blog so that I could put blog posts or a<br />documentation, um, section so that we can start writing documentation or whatever. Um, so that<br />kind of thing, because I think there\'s, there\'s going to be a point where we [00:45:00] need to<br />put, um, railroad cars in order mm-hmm. so that we\'re not, we\'re, you know, not getting in our<br />own way.<br />And you are empowered because there\'s, you know, I think part of the, the arc of this kind of<br />situation that often happens is, you and I have fun brainstorming, but upfront I\'m gonna do most<br />of the work of development and that kind of thing. But then at some point, the roles switch<br />where it\'s like, okay, I\'ve delivered, I\'ve given you something to sell.<br />Now go sell it. Mm. And so I wanna make sure that I\'m not just adding features. And then you\'re<br />like, okay, great, I\'ll now go sell this thing. I need to start writing blog posts. We need a blog. And<br />I\'m like, oh crap. Like we are not set up for that at all.<br />Cory Miller: Um, okay, let me talk, talk that out. That\'s, uh, that\'s great framing for me.<br />Um, so promotion. So product is out. We need [00:46:00] some eyeballs, we need somebody<br />testing it. We need somebody using it. Um, so I think my first step to me is how do we talk about<br />it personally? Use our own platforms cause we don\'t have a platform on crop express. So right<br />now we\'re depending on, uh, repost. Um, our audience, which I think is great.<br />We have audience, we have people that do this stuff. Um, then we have a conduit to talk about<br />it. cause a lot of the agency, the builders, people are in Post Us, which is great. So we can be<br />like mm-hmm hit us up on Slack, um, to to, to talk and give us feedback and stuff. I think what<br />we\'re trying to, trying to validate, I guess in the more scientific way is where\'s the interest?<br />You know, have we hit something? Are we there? Have we hit gold yet? [00:47:00] Um, so to<br />me, how do we get enough eyeballs is the question on the plugin. Like, use it and get some<br />response. And I think we\'ve got something here that either negative or positive, we\'re gonna get<br />something to gauge. , what\'s the next critical thing?<br />And as we\'ve said before, like I think the feature request side of this is the key right now is<br />somebody using it, going, I want this, I like this, but I want this. And then we gotta, we start to<br />build that business case for, okay, well if we built that, you and I can make those, those<br />decisions. Mm-hmm. . So just talking this out loud, without really processing it, I go use our<br />personal platforms to get some burst.<br />I think it would be interesting, I, I go to some of these outlandish things only to calibrate a little<br />bit. So when I say this, I wanna get that disclaimer. [00:48:00] It\'s like, you want a banner, you<br />wanna ring a bell and say, this sucks. We made it better. Like, doesn\'t this suck? Mm-hmm. ,<br />you know, so I almost. Cropping images sucks.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You know, there\'s this thought of like, I, I come back a lot to cause you know, cause is the<br />customer\'s problem. And so I go, okay. I mean that was what I told you initially, like months ago.<br />I go, this, this process sucks, right? Like, I don\'t like it and I\'m not trying to throw shade on any<br />of the core contributors at all.<br />Just this is a part in the process that really sucks. Yep. We\'ve made a step to make it better. But<br />big enough bell where it\'s not just that cause we have, we have plans and potential for more. So<br />I almost think like there\'s something in that. You were really good to come up with ideas and edit<br />some stuff.<br />It\'s like content. Something to the effect of [00:49:00] image editing sucks. Content, you know,<br />something in the realm, but it\'s just a little enough bigger than just the one thing we talked about<br />is like, finding images sucks. We know we wanna be careful with saying finding, so we don\'t<br />want them to think they\'re gonna find an image.<br />Right. Um, but I kind of think like some bell to ring, um, in that regard. And what\'s interesting to<br />me, there\'s con and, and so I just naturally go to content and what we do and what comes out of<br />us and what we\'re passionate about. And I\'m like, I\'d never heard of, I probably maybe have<br />heard of Affinity Designer, but talking about all the tools and how it\'s a pain in the butt on the<br />web to do images, like get what you want.<br />This whole conversation about fitting in to the post, like our process of going and finding an<br />image. So I go, core thing is this, but there\'s a lot of space around this to talk about [00:50:00]<br />images. Sure. And they\'re rolling that,<br />Cory Maass: Yeah, images are worth a thousand words. You\'ve already written a thousand<br />word blog post.<br />You have to go find an image now. Now pairing it with your a thousand words should not be<br />difficult. Um, and so definitely like the tools that people are using, the sites that people are<br />using, I think that there\'s, I, you know, I\'m a, I have subscriptions to at least half a dozen<br />newsletters that just recommend little power tools, little utility apps, cause that\'s, I love them.<br />They\'re fun. They spark ideas like crop express. Um, and so I think talking to some of those, Or<br />getting, obviously getting a, getting listed everywhere we can. That\'s, that\'s a no-brainer, but<br />specifically not only us putting out content, but but starting to talk to the people who are talking<br />to the content [00:51:00] creators.<br />So it\'s like, you know, there are blog po blog, excuse me, there are newsletters that are for<br />content creators and, you know, getting them to talk about here\'s a way to, um, you know, a<br />better, you, you\'ve written, you, you\'ve used a AI to write the, the blog post, or you\'ve written it<br />yourself or you\'ve hired somebody to write it yourself.<br />Here\'s a, here\'s a, you know, speed up the rest of the workflow. Um, there was something else<br />that just popped into my head too, but anyway, you know, but something like that.<br />Cory Miller: Yeah. So I was thinking like hyper users, cause the hyper users that like, do you<br />pay for affinity designer? Uh,<br />Cory Maass: I did once and that\'s why it\'s okay.<br />Cory Miller: So it was enough of a tool for you to pay for cause you use it in your everyday life,<br />you know? So I wonder, like, I\'m thinking hyper users, who are those? And this is the business<br />case too. So I think about Lindsey at Content Journey. They\'re, they\'re writing and posting and<br />publishing content for, [00:52:00] um, cut their clients all day, every day.<br />And I go, I should talk to Emily over there, um, about her process and get her be one of it. Um,<br />when it\'s in the repo, ask her to use it on one site and give us some feedback. Who, who else in<br />the hyper user that we know of that we could potentially get in their hands?<br />Cory Maass: Describe like what, how are you using the phrase hyper user? Okay.<br />Cory Miller: Well, somebody that does professional content production. Okay. Um, so that<br />could also, I mean, there\'s a ton of blog, you know Sure. What we formally call bloggers, but<br />using content, doing content every day, particularly in WordPress. Mm-hmm. . So there is that<br />pro blogger type content machine, you know?<br />Yep. Yeah. Um, we\'ll be using it at Post Status of course.<br />Cory Maass: [00:53:00] I mean, my clients will definitely use it cause they already, like I I said<br />early on, like I\'ve already, I have them going to the website to do cropping and so to remove that<br />step where they can just do it in WordPress, they\'re gonna do back flips, which will be fun to<br />watch.<br />Um,</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cory Miller: Yeah, I\'m, but I was also thinking for me, but that raw feedback you get Oh yeah.<br />When somebody\'s using it is so gold. So, oh yeah. I will love to hear what your clients say and<br />then I\'ll, I\'ll, I\'ll do a demo or something, or I\'ll do a screen share with Emily and ask her to look<br />at it. And first I\'ll te I\'ll first of all ask her for, I\'ll say, tell me how you, show me how you do a<br />typical blog.<br />And then I\'ll be like, okay, install this plugin here and tell me what you\'re thinking.<br />Cory Maass: Yep. Um, and this might be a little further down the road. Um, but the other thing<br />that jumps into my mind is like plugins, like Yost, where you have to upload a, an image. Um, so<br />this [00:54:00] isn\'t necessarily a featured image, but it\'s the, the image that that ends up being<br />the open graph image associated with each post.<br />Also, I\'m, I\'m, I\'m sure is supposed to be of specific dimensions. Um, and so I picture. Um,<br />they\'d be happy to write about like once, once we are even loosely integrated. But if it\'s useful to<br />their users, um, then they\'re gonna love our tool, right? So, um, getting, getting content or other<br />tools that interact with that, make their, that whose users interact with images, we\'re gonna also<br />make their customers happier.<br />Um, even if we are not immediately inter, you know, um, integrated, like will we, will we sell a<br />Yost add-on? I have no idea. But even upfront, well, if we, the minute we expand beyond<br />[00:55:00] featured images, we\'re like, here\'s how you, you know, in your media library, upload<br />an image, crop it for Yost, and then you go over to Yost and say, select this image to be your<br />open graph image for socials.<br />You know, basically connecting that, um, closing that circle, I\'m sure they\'d be happy to talk<br />about it. And that\'s an example, right? So it\'s like what other, um, big plugins or big systems<br />services that interact with WordPress that primarily or even curly, interact with images that we<br />can help make their customers\' lives easier than they\'re gonna want to talk about us.<br />Cory Miller: Okay, so right there, two things. Stand out. Besides Yoast, Yoast Is one of those, of<br />course. Um, but membership sites and e-commerce and I draw to that category because they\'re<br />making money with it. So they\'re the ability to spend money on it. So, question with<br />WooCommerce, [00:56:00] man, it\'s been forever, but when they upload a product image, are<br />they using default WordPress?<br />Stuff.<br />Cory Maass: And I\'ll tell you tomorrow,<br />Cory Miller: right there, there\'s an inroads. Oh yeah. Um, oh yeah. I think about the<br />membership sites, an LMS from Learn Dash to Lifter to Paid Membership Pro and everything.<br />And starting to talk about them, about that stuff. So there\'s code promotion stuff we could do. So<br />that, that would be like Kim Coleman.<br />We can reach out probably Bob Dunn to start with WooCommerce, but we\'ve got a whole<br />channel in, in, uh, Post Status. We could talk there. And then just WooCommerce is the big,<br />huge , you know, thing. Yeah. But, and I just went there directly cause you\'re like a little free<br />utility tool that helps them do one [00:57:00] thing.<br />There\'s a great. Oh yeah. To, uh, to scratch. Okay. So I\'ve got a couple of those, um, to think<br />about that I could be pinging people and asking. Um, okay. On email, I\'ll be think I tried to stay, I<br />started with promotion and go down and go, okay, what do we need from the website and the<br />email? I think, um, I, I love that the website itself is, is, is the tool.<br />Is a tool and it\'s a great tool and there\'s opportunities there. Um, it\'s not in the WordPress flow,<br />but I love it from a, let\'s, if we just called it a lead magnet<br />Cory Maass: mm-hmm. , which is, you know, how would what we\'re talking about. Yep. Yeah.<br />Cory Miller: Um, and like have the link to want better image, whatever our phrase is in<br />WordPress over there.<br />Then we\'ll have the pro version, um, So I\'m [00:58:00] hesitant to say to do anything right now<br />with the website other than those things because I still love, we\'re gonna get some trickle in and<br />they go and they got used and they can bookmark those and go back like I do with it. So we\'re<br />in their workflow too.<br />Cory Maass: So here\'s one other thing that I really want you to do.<br />Um, yeah, because, and this goes back to one of our first conversations is, um, you know, I, uh,<br />I showed you yesterday, I made some updates to the ui. Um, do a quick review of the new<br />version, the newest version. Um, look for any e easy wins. Oh, don\'t have this box on the left or<br />this button on the left. Have it on the right.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>That\'s more intuitive, whatever easy wins like that. Um, because I think. So the, the code for the<br />plugin, because it\'s built into [00:59:00] Gutenberg, is not a one-to-one to get it working on the<br />website, but obvi, but we want the website to look the same as the product. And so I wanna<br />start looking at how to marry those two.<br />Um, even if they\'re, they might be separate code bases, you know, but, or they might be the, I<br />might be able to use the same one, but it\'s like, I don\'t want to, I don\'t wanna do more work than<br />I have to. So if you do a quick review and say, Nope, everything\'s fine, or make this button<br />bigger, or whatever, then I can also, like, I, I liked what you just said of like, the website doesn\'t<br />have to change altogether, but I do think we want to change the crop on the website to be the<br />same as our product.<br />So that it\'s the best kind of lead magnet. Like the tool you are using is literally do this with<br />Cory Miller: WordPress. Insert into WordPress. Yeah, exactly. Do this in WordPress. There you<br />go. Yeah. .<br />Cory Maass: Okay. So, oh, so product feedback would be the other thing. [01:00:00] And I\'m<br />not talking, you know, like, let\'s, let\'s grab a, a color scheme and we can, you know, inject a little<br />bit of that into the plugin just so that we start to build brand recognition that way.<br />Hot pink everywhere or whatever. Um, not really, but, you know, something. Um, but beyond<br />that, you know, we\'ll keep it simple, but we can start to sort of massage the website to look more<br />like the, the plugin we\'re building.<br />Cory Miller: Okay. Okay. So I have start kind of doing next steps for promotion, thinking about<br />the website and, uh, monthly, whatever the cadence is for the email.<br />Uh, and then to review the latest version of the plugin. Okay. Can. I\'m out the next couple of<br />days, uh, on a trip with some buddies of mine, but, uh, I\'ll be back in the settle and, um, that\'s,<br />that\'s a pretty easy lift for me. [01:01:00] I, I want to think about like, we\'re gonna put it out there.<br />We want to chase, we want to get it in some hands, like your clients.<br />I think our ideal and then, uh, content journey, getting feedback from them are ideal. Um, but I<br />want to think about some sort of, some topical thing, and maybe it\'s something we just talk<br />about live. Like just hearing your workflow is different from mine. I always love talking to<br />developers and go, how do you get these things done?<br />And they\'re like, this is, and I go, can you slow down and show me again? Because I want to do<br />that for myself. So there\'s like, like that workflow conversation about mm-hmm. content<br />production. And we could kind of have a little, you know, I mean, maybe. I don\'t know what your,<br />your relationship is with your clients, but like, just talking about this thing that sucks how we do<br />it.<br />Like you give your tip, I give my tip, they give their tip, you know, content journey, whoever else,<br />professional blogger out there, um, [01:02:00] group or whatever that I, so I just wanna spin<br />those ideas a little bit about something that we can get to like ring the, ring the bell of like, this,<br />this, this is an issue and this is how people do it better and we\'ve got one too.<br />Cory Maass: Yeah. Well, and I like the old trick of, you know, how often the best marketing<br />phrases, word, sentences come from clients talking about their problem. Totally. Um, and so I<br />also, and am of course envisioning like, I don\'t know if a poll would capture what we want.<br />Creating. If, if we can figure out the, the right questions to ask, we can put questions up in<br />MegaMaker in Post Status.<br />The couple of other, um, slack communities that I\'m in, we can both put them on our Twitter and<br />it\'s like, I don\'t expect thousands of responses, but even a handful. And there\'s people that I<br />know you can pull on this tug on the [01:03:00] sleeve of, and there\'s people I can tug on the<br />sleeve of and be like, do me a favor and go answer these three questions.<br />You know, take five minutes, do you know, and I owe you a beer the next time I see you at a<br />WordCamp kind of thing. Um, yeah know, but just to start capturing the words that people are<br />using, um, the workflow that people are, you know, in three steps, how would you des or in, in<br />10 steps or less, how would you describe how you finish off a blog?<br />You\'ve written all the words. What are the next, you know, what are the steps between that and<br />hitting publish, or. Whatever, to just again, start to capture that, that thinking, the workflows that<br />you\'re talking about. So, ,<br />Cory Miller: I went to YouTube and we got some good comments actually in there. I need to<br />have this up every single time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>By the way, they, they were making comments as we were talking about, like, we\'re riffing. I was<br />like, oh, we got collaborators out there. Um, but ve said, I think, yeah, I will, I will buy [01:04:00]<br />that. So like, Hey , I\'ll try to say we\'re our first customer, first perspective customer. Um,<br />Cory Maass: quick get a credit card number.<br />Cory Miller: Yeah, yeah. Here\'s our, here\'s our PayPal address. Um, Zach said something, I<br />wanna come back real quick. Art direction with resized and crop thumbnails sucks. With the<br />core feature set. Keeping the focal point in the image matters, that would be a killer feature. So,<br />, you know, resonance. How do we keep attention?<br />I think we got some good next steps. And for all this, sorry, I just happened to go over here and<br />look real quick. And it was like, we\'ve got, we\'ve got some comments coming in, so add to our<br />awesome conversation.<br />Cory Maass: Yeah, that\'s cool. Oh, and well, and, and how fun is this? So I just went over to<br />YouTube as well, um, which I had not been watching the comment.<br />I\'ve been watching comments in four comments in Zoom, but not YouTube. So yeah, from now<br />[01:05:00] on I\'ll open this, but they have a, um, clip a crop icon under our video of a pair of<br />scissors.<br />Cory Miller: Oh yeah. Oh, that\'s interesting. Okay.<br />Cory Maass: So anyway, I just, you know, and, but more and more, yeah, I\'m thinking we want<br />to get away from that or the obviousness of that or something.<br />Anyway.<br />Cory Miller: I do think up, I do think on that note opinions and even strong for the right, strong<br />opinions for the right things really matter in a product. Um, where, you know, WordPress is a<br />great example of this, of like opinions about certain things that I didn\'t always like, but they were<br />good for the overall thing.<br />And I think we\'re developing some opinions and then we\'ll get some validation from customers<br />and really strengthen that opinion going Yeah. But like the first opinion is we say image cropping<br />[01:06:00] sucks. Yeah. So we can start with that base. Oh, sorry.<br />Cory Maass: No, but I, I, I really like. I, I hope this is, I hope you take this as the compliment.<br />I mean it, so there\'s, there\'s some, to me as a northeastern American, there is a Midwestern<br />charm in that, in the phrase, in that phrase, like sucks is very brash, you know, and I think it\'s<br />fine to use these days, but it, but the is a chore. Because it, it works as a phrase like, this sucks,<br />but it\'s also literally, it\'s a chore.<br />It\'s a thing you have to do and don\'t wanna do, but it\'s part of the workflow. So I re I still, I, I want<br />to keep coming. I, I want to keep coming back to that phrase.<br />Cory Miller: Well, let\'s take that for a second. I love that, that kind of refocus on, it\'s a chore<br />because you think about [01:07:00] you\'re trying to do this creative act.<br />You\'re trying to makes… when you push publish, you get something out into the world and you,<br />it\'s not all art and design, but you want it to be a nice product that\'s received well, that people do<br />something with. You know? And when you said chore made me think about the workflow, like,<br />you know, okay, I paint the beautiful painting on the canvas.<br />Now I gotta find a frame. Hmm. Like the read me file. And I think that chore coming to like, this<br />should not be a chore. That\'s our opinion. You should be. Focusing and using all your resources<br />on the creative act, not on the chores. We\'re gonna take the chores out for you. Love it. That\'s a<br />strong opinion that we could say like, yeah.<br />That there\'s something there. But I like your refocus. I tend to go there, calibrate in a little bit.<br />Okay. And, you know, if we\'re just doing this privately, you\'d be like, yeah. It\'s, it\'s probably a<br />little strong. Okay. Tour\'s better.<br />Cory Maass: Yeah. [01:08:00] This is, I like, this is, you know, this is the battle we\'re fighting is<br />Yeah.<br />Against the awfulness. That is the process of Yes. Dealing with images. Like, that\'s our, that\'s<br />our, you know, 6 million annual company. What we\'re starting with today is the cropping of an<br />image. Cropping of a featured image.<br />Cory Miller: Yeah. Reduce creative chores like the, the bell we ring is, Yeah, we\'re getting onto<br />the cause the bigger thing and we\'re just a part of it, and I use this all the time cause I\'m like,<br />when you find that core thing enough, people are irritated about you just ring it.<br />But then we get into, cause when we\'re like, stay in the creative lane, reduce this chore, friction.<br />Our job is to reduce your, your, your creative [01:09:00] chore. Yep. Your, I don\'t know, I\'m</p>\n\n\n\n<p>rehearsing this out loud, but like reduce your creative chores and then like, it should be about<br />the magic of beautiful images and fits with your story and syncs. Or if it\'s an e-commerce store,<br />like, Hey, I want you spending more time trying to make sure the lighting is perfect and your<br />product, like exudes what it does in the world and we\'re gonna, then when you get into show it<br />off to everybody, you don\'t have, we don\'t want you to go through a slog of mud to get there.<br />That slog of mud. Is there our opportunity right there? So<br />Cory Maass: we are, we are the bridge over the troubled water<br />You\'re speechless. My terrible joke. Shut him down. No,<br />Cory Miller: you can\'t do things like this because then my weird mind starts go. So we can go to<br />fiber and get a little like montage, , um, video . I think the [01:10:00] quirky stuff, I think things<br />like that. It\'s all on the table. It\'s just like authenticity. Hey, we\'re two dudes that like, don\'t like<br />this thing.<br />We solve this. We\'re, we\'re solved this little problem, but we think it might go on and if you want<br />to continue to support us to do it, we\'re gonna do it. Um, but the quirky , yeah, we did some<br />outlandish, quirky stuff, by the way, the themes. And I just found one the other day and I was<br />like, Ooh, you know, that\'s still out there.<br />Um, had years ago. Oh, go ahead. It\'s, it\'s, it\'s this outlandish, okay. So builder, I think Builder<br />was turning one year old and we wanted to celebrate it. So we had a birthday cake, birthday<br />cake, birthday party for it. And we had the image of the, the hat that we had made into it.<br />Lindsay had it made into a 3D cake.<br />And I\'m like, you know what? It\'s just those quirky things of like, it\'s a chore. We\'ll try to make it<br />funner, you know? Yeah. Kind of thing. So, oh, for sure. By the way, this is part of my process.<br />It\'s just like, you know, us talking through this and we get clarity of like, [01:11:00] oh, cause I<br />wrote chore and cause I wrote chore and I put a box around it, little crop box around it, and I\'m<br />like, yeah, let\'s destroy chores, destroy, create.<br />Oh, this is where I, uh, initially started that whole thing, Corey, I think in business in particular<br />with products and stuff, it\'s really good to have a villain. And I don\'t like to make people, I never<br />like to make people the villain. Sure. But the creative chores are the villain. So we are the<br />crusaders that fight against the creative chores.<br />So I\'m just, you know, but I, I just go like an enemy always helps a villain, always helps, kind of,<br />you know, push us, help our clients go, you\'re fighting for us and if we make chores, the<br />creative, the content chores, the, the villain, we\'re not fighting a person. We don\'t wanna do that.<br />Sorry. We wanna fight this concept that gets in the way of you doing magic on the web.<br />So, yeah. [01:12:00] Okay. I love that , because you know me, I\'m gonna try to find. Or if you<br />don\'t know , uh, any reason to do swag is a good hundred reason. And if business can help pay<br />for it. I\'m like,<br />Cory Maass: oh God, you and I are best in trouble then because we\'re in trouble. I am nonstop.<br />Like I, for everything I\'ve ever made, I at least had one, uh, sticker made or one t-shirt made or,<br />uh, cause swag is, is everything.<br />It\'s starting from, we keep coming back to me as a musician, but like in, when I first started, like<br />before I even had music, Out released. I had t-shirts, I had designed t-shirts and I, now I\'m mad<br />at myself cause I\'ve, I spent hours and hours and hours designing album artwork, designing<br />swag that nobody ever bought because the music wasn\'t good enough,<br />And so I wish I had spent the hours making the music good enough, uh, to [01:13:00] actually<br />like, warrant the swag. But it made me better as a designer. And, and it\'s, and it\'s fun. I don\'t<br />really regret it as far as, you know, like the fun I had in my life. But, um, yeah, so I\'m excited to<br />see what ridiculous things we come up with.<br />Cory Miller: So Corey, here\'s something that would be a low lift for us, but would be fun and hit<br />in this ring The bell we\'re fighting this villain, you know, um, is have a printful shop and all these<br />little stupid, you know, quirky ideas. We have. Shirt sticker. We\'re not trying to make money off<br />it, but it it, that\'s content that\'s like these pe you know, it\'s back to the Seth Good and Tribes<br />thing.<br />It\'s like, these people get me, they get what I\'m doing. And like this, we could turn that swag<br />concept. Cause Printful you can do everything from stickers. We could create, like imagine the<br />random shit we could do, but like, it\'s ringing the bell, chores suck.<br />Cory Maass: We need to, [01:14:00] we, we we\'re gonna make crop, um, crop t-shirts.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>They\'re gonna cut off just below the nipples . And you and I are gonna get on this call week after<br />week with our bellies hanging out because our t-shirts have been cropped or, you know, or, or a<br />square cutout, uh, here, you know, Terrible, terrible. We\'re gonna, we\'re gonna have to shave<br />patches into our heads because we\'ve cropped, uh, you know, cropped our hair like dumb stuff.<br />Like we will take the dad joke too far. Yeah.<br />Cory Miller: So we talk about out the truly outlandish stuff. Nobody wants to see me in a crop<br />top, but like truly out lunch stuff and we kind of calibrate it in. But an example of this is, um, oh<br />get tushy. It\'s the kinda like $79, uh, bk. So I bought, we have one and we bought others and my<br />friend Jason Scher told me about it.<br />But their marketing is so on brand. They [01:15:00] take this concept that isn\'t talked about in<br />polite company potentially, or we call it a bday, you know? Okay. Yeah. But their marketing, they<br />make poop jokes, you know, all the time. Like they infuse that. And I\'m not saying we can, you<br />know, but the spirit of it is, yeah, make it fun.<br />You know, and so I think like we\'re in the outlandish phase and we\'ll figure out these others that<br />are just kind of fun and quirky. We\'re not gonna get anybody buying them, but it\'s like, that\'s our<br />content marketing potentially. Yeah. You know?<br />Cory Maass: Well, and it\'s because it\'s, it\'s what keep it. If nothing else, it would, it\'s what, it\'s,<br />you and I are gonna have fun and it\'s gonna keep us excited to, to do this kind of stuff.<br />And like, um, the example I wanted to share earlier was, my first moderate success of a product<br />was I built a, um, personal finance tracker 20 years ago now. No, 15 years ago [01:16:00] now.<br />Um, And, and some people didn\'t. If there was a day where you didn\'t spend something, I was<br />like, this, this needs a celebration. And so I built a little Easter egg.<br />So if on a day when you were tracking your finances, if you, if you took the time to enter zero,<br />you got a, um, an email that was like, you know, congratulations. We got, we we got a video for<br />you. And I had gone on Fiver, and this is back when Fiver was, you know, truly anything for $5.<br />And I got a video made of a guy, um, beatboxing.<br />And he is like, what? You didn\'t spend anything? That\'s awesome. And then he starts<br />beatboxing money, money, money, money. And it like, but really good. And it was like just this<br />quirky weird thing that people lost their minds over. Yeah. And it took me, it was five bucks and<br />20 minutes to find somebody to do something outrageous.<br />But that\'s like, [01:17:00] You know, I live for that kind of stuff, you know, it doesn\'t necessarily<br />have to be Easter eggs, but like, you know, fun little weird things that, cause it\'s, you can also<br />defeat villains with joy, right? Like, we\'re we\'re, oh yeah. The, but like, you know, the goal is to<br />make it fun. Forget, you know, the, the chore wheel is what makes it fun or you make a game<br />out of it or whatever.<br />You know, that kind of thinking.<br />Cory Miller: You just read my notes. Okay, make creative chores fun. Like, okay, so you, you,<br />you were talking about music and I was like, oh, you have a soundtrack. When you create<br />posts, when you do that, like you were talking earlier, you use, uh, electronic music, it\'s like<br />there\'s a question.<br />So like, our email content could be like, you know what? Our email banner could be, make<br />creative chores fun. And it\'s like, what\'s your [01:18:00] favorite soundtrack? We made a shirt<br />over. Um, the spinning, I don\'t know. You know? Right. That could be some of that content that<br />we\'re like, elicit people\'s creative chore.<br />How they make creative chores fun cause they\'re necessity. I like your angle. Not everybody<br />has to be defeated. We could like hug the villain.<br />uh, Santa Claus put makeup on the villain.<br />Cory Maass: Santa Claus three where you know they, eventually the bad guy. Um, the spoiler<br />alert everybody, if you haven\'t seen Santa Claus three, plug your ears. But, you know, at the<br />end, the villain who is Jack Frost is vanquished because a little girl hugs him and thaws him out.<br />Finally. So this is the goal is, uh, you know, warm hugs that will make chores not as evil.<br />Cory Miller: There you go. Yeah. I love it. Grinch. You know, like there\'s [01:19:00] the Yeah,<br />we\'re gonna be the playful. I like that. Um, I think we should keep this on top of our mind. Yeah.<br />Like, I just try to find the bell. You keep ringing, you know?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mm-hmm. . Um, and it\'s make to me from our time as like, make creative chores fun. Yep. And<br />then the question is how do you do it? You know, making creative chores fun by carpet<br />Express.<br />Cory Maass: Yep. Things, yeah. Just broadly speaking, what, yeah, these are all things we can<br />talk about, things we can promote, things we can encourage in other, in others.<br />So again, like how do we get other people to talk about us as well? And it\'s like, here is this con,<br />this concept that we are owning and, you know, so we\'re, we\'re. Yes, we solve it very specifically<br />with, with the product we\'re building, but broadly speaking, you know, where in the world are<br />their creative chores and what are other clever ways that they [01:20:00] are being vanquished<br />or being hugged to death or being, uh, you know, uh, how, how can we, uh, spoonful of sugar<br />kind of concepts.<br />You know,<br />Cory Miller: how do you make your creative chores fun? Yeah. You know, well, whatever they<br />may be. Yeah. Whatever. Not even, like, it doesn\'t even necessarily have to be WordPress, you<br />know? Right. It could be just, you\'re doing art and this is the chore part. So how do you make it<br />fun? Well, I dress up at Santa Claus when I go pick out my frames or I, I don\'t know.<br />You know what I mean? But that, but the questions you\'re, you\'re sharing is like, that\'s just<br />ongoing cool content. Okay. All right, dude. Okay. I got my stuff. Continue on these. Review the,<br />uh, on the promotional side. Next steps for that. Um, review the, the updates you\'ve done to the<br />product. You\'ve got logo and masthead.<br />I\'m sure we\'ll be talking betwe between now and next week.<br />Cory Maass: Yeah. Masthead is easy. Logo. [01:21:00] We, we need to keep going back and<br />forth because it\'s, I, I, I\'m happy to own it, but we need to do some, do lots of thinking around it.<br />Cory Miller: Okay. You wanna show some logos next week and get our, uh, audience\'s<br />opinion? I gotta tell you though, when you said the eighties pink and black, I go, I mean, why<br />does it have to be boring?<br />Why does it have to be serious and monotonous? Pink kind of screams that corporate. Yeah.<br />Cory Maass: No, no more internet, corporate blue.<br />Cory Miller: So I\'ll, I\'ll leave it to your, uh, uh, inspiration and we\'ll, we\'ll, we can, we\'ll, we\'ll talk<br />about that next week in between. Nice. Thanks dude.<br />Cory Maass: Yeah, man. I\'ll talk soon. Okay.</p>\n<p>This article was published at Post Status — the community for WordPress professionals.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 03 Mar 2023 12:03:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"Cory Miller\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:38;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:60:\"WordPress.org blog: The Month in WordPress – February 2023\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=14550\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:72:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2023/03/the-month-in-wordpress-february-2023/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:13213:\"<p>February has been an exciting month for the WordPress community, with the celebration of the first-ever WordCamp Asia bringing friends and contributors back together in person. But that&#8217;s not all; read on for the latest project updates.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-text-color has-light-grey-color has-alpha-channel-opacity has-light-grey-background-color has-background\" />\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Get ready for WordPress 6.2</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>WordPress 6.2 Beta 4</strong> arrived earlier this week and is <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/01/wordpress-6-2-beta-4/\">ready for download and testing</a>. Work continues on track, with the first release candidate (RC1) due next week and the target for the final release on <strong>March 28, 2023</strong>—less than four weeks away!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>WordPress 6.2 is one of the last major releases planned for Phase 2 of Gutenberg, taking the Site Editor out of beta with a more polished user experience and refreshed interface.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>On March 2, members of the release squad hosted the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/02/21/6-2-live-product-demo/\">6.2 live product demo</a>. The recording and transcript will be available soon. In the meantime, these resources will give you a taste of what&#8217;s to come:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/02/06/roadmap-to-6-2/\">Roadmap to 6.2</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/02/04/phase-2-finale/\">Phase 2, Finale</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/03/02/wordpress-6-2-accessibility-improvements/\">WordPress 6.2 Accessibility Improvements</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote has-extra-large-font-size\">\n<p><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/2023/02/07/help-test-wordpress-6-2/\">Help test WordPress 6.2</a>. Your feedback is key to ensuring everything in this release is the best it can be.</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Join WordPress&#8217; 20th anniversary celebrations</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>WordPress is turning 20, and the community is getting ready to celebrate!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>As part of the festivities, the project has released a <a href=\"https://wp20.wordpress.net/wordpresss-wapuu-joins-the-wp20-celebration/\">20th anniversary Wapuu</a>, a <a href=\"https://wp20.wordpress.net/download-the-wp20-commemorative-logos/\">set of commemorative logos</a>, and a <a href=\"https://wp20.wordpress.net/20-years-of-wordpress-jazz/\">special playlist with 46 tracks</a> from the jazz artists selected to represent WordPress releases. Official WP20 swag will also be available soon.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In addition, the Museum of Block Art (MOBA) is <a href=\"https://block-museum.com/2023/02/21/lets-celebrate-20-years-of-wordpress/\">calling all artists</a> to submit block art themed on “20 years of WordPress.”</p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote has-extra-large-font-size\">\n<p><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2023/03/lets-party-organize-your-wp20-celebration/\">Find out how to organize and participate in the WP20 celebrations</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p></p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What’s new in Gutenberg</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Two new versions of Gutenberg have shipped in the last month:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/02/10/whats-new-in-gutenberg-15-1-8-february/\"><strong>Gutenberg 15.1</strong></a> was released on February 8, 2023, with access to the Openverse library of openly-licensed media from the Editor. Other highlights include the ability to add custom CSS on a per-block basis and support for shadow presets in Global Styles. This is the last version of Gutenberg that will be <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/block-editor/contributors/versions-in-wordpress/\">included in WordPress 6.2</a>.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/02/24/whats-new-in-gutenberg-15-2-22-february/\"><strong>Gutenberg 15.2</strong></a><strong> </strong>is available for download as of February 22, 2023. Besides continued accessibility improvements, this release adds support for revisions when editing templates and template parts, and refines the navigation experience in the Site Editor.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote has-extra-large-font-size\">\n<p><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/02/01/core-editor-improvement-strengthening-style-options/\"></a>Follow the “<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/tag/gutenberg-new/\">What’s new in Gutenberg</a>” posts to stay on top of the latest enhancements.</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Team updates: Global community sponsors for 2023, contributor mentorship program, and more</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li>The Community Team announced the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/2023/02/08/2023-global-sponsors-announcement/\">global sponsors</a> that will support the WordPress community programs in 2023.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>A few months ago, Meetup.com removed an accessibility overlay in response to <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/2022/11/23/meetup-com-accessibility-overlay-update/\">some concerns</a> from the WordPress community. <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/2023/02/17/meetup-com-accessibility-overlay-february-update/\">A recent update</a> reports that the company has conducted an assessment and plans to address the issues identified.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>The Training Team launched a <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/training/2023/02/10/training-teams-new-onboarding-program-is-now-live/\">new onboarding program</a> for contributors. In addition, they worked on numerous lesson plans, online workshops, and tutorials last month. <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/updates/2023/03/01/whats-new-on-learnwp-in-february-2023/\">Check out what&#8217;s new on Learn WordPress</a>.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>The Documentation Team shared <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/docs/2023/02/07/future-plans-for-helphub/\">future plans for HelpHub</a>.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Openverse moved to a standalone domain, <a href=\"https://openverse.org/\">openverse.org</a>, with improvements to the site’s homepage, header, and footer.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>The Plugin Review Team posted a notice to inform about <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/plugins/2023/02/03/twitter-api-changes/\">the latest Twitter API changes</a> and the types of plugins that might be affected.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>The <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/2023/02/16/polyglots-monthly-newsletter-february-2023/\">February edition of the Polyglots monthly newsletter</a> highlights some recent enhancements to GlotPress’ functionality and the <a href=\"https://translate.wordpress.org/\">translate.wordpress.org</a> platform.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>The latest <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/2023/02/15/meetup-organizer-newsletter-february-2023/\">Meetup Organizer newsletter</a> shares tips on how to help your meetup group stay connected and engaged between events.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Check out <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2023/02/whats-new-for-developers-february-2023/\">What’s new for developers? (February 2023)</a>, the first edition of a new monthly series with features and resources developers should know about.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>The latest edition of People of WordPress features <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2023/02/people-of-wordpress-hauwa-abashiya/\">Hauwa Abashiya</a>.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote has-extra-large-font-size\">\n<p>Following discussions on <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/project/2023/01/09/request-for-feedback-how-can-we-improve-the-five-for-the-future-contributor-journey/\">improving the contributor journey</a>, a new <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/project/2023/02/06/proposal-creating-a-wordpress-contributor-mentorship-program/\">WordPress contributor mentorship program</a> has been proposed to roll out this year.</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Feedback &amp; testing requests</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li>A new proposal from the Community Team seeks to <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/2023/02/27/proposal-modify-the-events-and-news-widget-to-show-topic-based-meetups-worldwide/\">modify the Events and News dashboard widget</a> to show topic-based meetups worldwide.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Members of the Core Team suggested some <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2023/02/18/proposal-updates-to-the-wordpress-release-cycle/\">updates to the WordPress release cycle</a>.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/updates/2023/03/03/mobile-team-update-march-2nd/\">Version 21.8</a> of the WordPress mobile app for iOS and Android is available for testing.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote has-extra-large-font-size\">\n<p>Redesign work is <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/meta/2023/02/10/theme-directory-redesign-update/\">well underway</a> on the WordPress Theme Directory. Contributors can follow along on <a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/wporg-theme-directory/\">the GitHub repository</a>.</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">WordPress events updates</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li>Bangkok, Thailand, hosted a successful inaugural <a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2023/we-did-it/\">WordCamp Asia</a> on February 17-19. The event welcomed 1,299 attendees, and more than 600 participants joined the Contributor Day. At the event&#8217;s closure, organizers announced that <a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2024/\">WordCamp Asia 2024</a> will take place in Taipei, Taiwan!</li>\n\n\n\n<li>The application to <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/2023/02/08/apply-to-attend-the-2023-community-summit/\">attend the 2023 Community Summit</a> is now open to WordPress contributors. Learn more about the ins and outs of this working event in <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2023/02/episode-49-everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-community-summit/\">Episode 49 of WP Briefing</a>.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>WordCamp Europe 2023 is looking for <a href=\"https://europe.wordcamp.org/2023/call-for-media-partners-and-supporters/\">media partners and supporters</a>.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Want to create diverse and inclusive WordPress events? Don’t miss <a href=\"https://www.eventbrite.com/e/organizing-diverse-inclusive-wordpress-events-ameremea-tickets-561034247537\">this free #WPDiversity workshop</a> happening March 16, 2023.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Many WordCamps are coming up in the next weeks:\n<ul>\n<li><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f1fa-1f1ec.png\" alt=\"🇺🇬\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> <a href=\"https://entebbe.wordcamp.org/2023/\">WordCamp Entebbe</a>, Uganda, on March 10-11, 2023</li>\n\n\n\n<li><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f1ea-1f1f8.png\" alt=\"🇪🇸\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> <a href=\"https://torrelodones.wordcamp.org/2023/\">WordCamp Torrelodones</a>, Madrid, Spain, on March 11-12, 2023</li>\n\n\n\n<li><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f1fa-1f1f8.png\" alt=\"🇺🇸\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> <a href=\"https://phoenix.wordcamp.org/2023/\">WordCamp Phoenix</a>, Arizona, USA, on March 24-25, 2023</li>\n\n\n\n<li><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f1ee-1f1f3.png\" alt=\"🇮🇳\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> <a href=\"https://kerala.wordcamp.org/2023/\">WordCamp Kerala</a>, India, on March 25, 2023</li>\n\n\n\n<li><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f1e8-1f1f4.png\" alt=\"🇨🇴\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> <a href=\"https://bogota.wordcamp.org/2023/\">WordCamp Bogotá</a>, Colombia, on March 31-April 1, 2023 (Online)</li>\n\n\n\n<li><img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/14.0.0/72x72/1f1e8-1f1ed.png\" alt=\"🇨🇭\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /><a href=\"https://switzerland.wordcamp.org/2023/\">WordCamp Switzerland</a> on April 1, 2023</li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote has-extra-large-font-size\">\n<p>Join WordPress Executive Director Josepha Haden Chomphosy as she explores <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2023/02/episode-50-3-interesting-trends-from-wordcamp-asia/\">three interesting trends from WordCamp Asia</a>.</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-text-color has-light-grey-color has-alpha-channel-opacity has-light-grey-background-color has-background\" />\n\n\n\n<p><strong><em><strong><em><strong><em>Have a story we should include in the next issue of The Month in WordPress? <strong><em>Fill out </em></strong><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/month-in-wordpress-submissions/\"><strong><em>this quick form</em></strong></a><strong><em> to let us know.</em></strong></em></strong></em></strong></em></strong></p>\n\n\n\n<p><em><em>The following folks contributed to this Month in WordPress: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ninianepress/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>ninianepress</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jpantani/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>jpantani</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rmartinezduque/\" class=\"mention\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>rmartinezduque</a>.</em></em></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 03 Mar 2023 11:30:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"rmartinezduque\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:39;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:77:\"WPTavern: WordPress Community on Mastodon Launches “Toot the Word” Survey\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:30:\"https://wptavern.com/?p=142425\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:82:\"https://wptavern.com/wordpress-community-on-mastodon-launches-toot-the-word-survey\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:2805:\"<p>Last month&#8217;s <a href=\"https://wptavern.com/twitter-outage-uncovers-more-details-on-upcoming-api-access-changes-giving-the-fediverse-a-shot-in-the-arm\">Twitter outage</a> gave Mastodon a boost, as the company also announced <a href=\"https://wptavern.com/wordpress-plugin-developers-alerted-ahead-of-twitter-api-changes\">unpopular changes to its API access</a>. People from the WordPress community continue to trickle into the fediverse, with many going so far as to shutter their Twitter accounts. A fledgling community of WordPress users on Mastodon has made the network home and are reporting more quality interactions than they experience on other platforms.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Daniel Auener, who runs a WordPress agency based in Sweden, curates and maintains <a href=\"https://wp-community-on-mastodon.wptoots.social/\">a list of WordPress community members’ Mastodon accounts</a> that anyone can follow by downloading a CSV file and importing it into Mastodon. He and the other admins of the five largest WordPress-related Mastodon instances have joined together to create a <a href=\"https://forms.gle/a2c7BAibVPfEjXQ19\">survey</a> for WordPress users. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>The survey is being organized by the following admins: </p>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://wptoots.social/\">wptoots.social</a>&nbsp;(<a href=\"https://wptoots.social/@danielauener\">@danielauener</a>)</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wpmastodon.es/\">wpmastodon.es</a>&nbsp;(<a href=\"https://wpmastodon.es/@javiercasares\">@javiercasares</a>)</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wp-social.net/\">wp-social.net</a>&nbsp;(<a href=\"https://wp-social.net/@praetorverlag\">@praetorverlag</a>)</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://dewp.space/\">dewp.space</a>&nbsp;(<a href=\"https://dewp.space/@simon\">@simon</a>)</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wpbuilds.social/\">wpbuild.social</a>&nbsp;(<a href=\"https://wpbuilds.social/@nathan\">@nathan</a>)</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>&#8220;The goal of this two-minute survey is to help us improve the WordPress-related Mastodon instances and Mastodon as a meeting place for the WordPress Community in general,&#8221; Auener said. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>&#8220;We want to know your needs and challenges and how you think we – as WordPress-related instances – can strengthen the WordPress community on Mastodon.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Respondents will be asked how frequently they use Mastodon and how important it is to their overall WordPress-related social media activity. They will also be asked about the quality of communication with the community and what they would like to see more of on Mastodon. So far the survey has received 112 responses. If you have embraced the fediverse, take two minutes to leave your feedback on the &#8220;<a href=\"https://forms.gle/a2c7BAibVPfEjXQ19\">Toot the Word Survey</a>&#8221; before it closes on March 5, 2023. </p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Thu, 02 Mar 2023 22:09:32 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"Sarah Gooding\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:40;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:51:\"WPTavern: MonetizeMore Acquires Advanced Ads Plugin\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:30:\"https://wptavern.com/?p=142414\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:62:\"https://wptavern.com/monetizemore-acquires-advanced-ads-plugin\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:3404:\"<p><a href=\"https://www.monetizemore.com/\">MonetizeMore</a>, an ad revenue optimization company, has <a href=\"https://wpadvancedads.com/monetizemore-acquires-advanced-ads/\">acquired the Advanced Ads plugin</a> and will be hiring the team behind the products. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>The plugin&#8217;s ad management tools are used by more than 150,000 websites to create, display, and rotate ad units, as well as schedule and target ads based on preset conditions. It integrates with many other popular plugins like BuddyPress, bbPress, Elementor, MailPoet, Paid Memberships Pro, and more. The plugin is <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/advanced-ads/\">distributed on WordPress.org</a> with commercial upgrades and add-ons available.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Advanced Ads creator Thomas Maier launched the plugin 2014 after finding that most WordPress ad plugins didn&#8217;t support responsive ads, cached websites, or split testing for better performance. Over the past nine years his team has grown to 12 people supporting 40 million impressions.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Maier said he &#8220;never found much joy in fulfilling the executive and administrative roles in such a successful project&#8221; and will be returning to working on a team with Advanced Ads&#8217; customers as part of MonetizeMore.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>&#8220;I haven’t felt comfortable with a managing (aka &#8216;boss&#8217;) position for a while and wanted to get out of it before losing fun working with my team, product, and customers,&#8221; Maier said. &#8220;It was more a process than a specific turning point.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>&#8220;Luckily, I built relationships with potential buyers long before thinking about selling. This helped me last year to get multiple qualified offers in a short period of time. I also asked people who have sold their WordPress [businesses] for advice, which was often very honest and open.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Maier said the administrative burden wasn&#8217;t the problem, as his team did most of the daily tasks already. In selling Advanced Ads he was looking to move into a new role by passing the ownership on to a company that he believes to be a &#8220;sensible market participant.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>&#8220;My energy was drained by me feeling responsible for everyone, the team, customers, and partners, to be happy,&#8221; Maier said. &#8220;I couldn’t shut up thinking about that even when everything was running smoothly. After 13 years running my own companies, I am looking forward to stepping away from the driver’s seat.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This acquisition allows MonetizeMore to expand its ad optimization tools with Advanced Ads&#8217; features, which allow users to manage and target their ads without coding skills.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>&#8220;Their expertise complements our existing programmatic advertising tools and products suite, keeping our publishers at the forefront of the industry,&#8221; MonetizeMore CEO and founder Kean Graham said. &#8220;As we are set for exponential growth this year and on track to cross the $100M ARR mark this year, we will remain selective in making strategic acquisitions and partnerships with organizations that also empower ad-monetized publishers.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Maier said he doesn&#8217;t expect any changes with the plugin&#8217;s pricing as the result of the acquisition. There are currently no changes planned for active subscriptions, existing product features, or service levels. </p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Thu, 02 Mar 2023 20:46:28 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"Sarah Gooding\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:41;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:66:\"WordPress.org blog: Let’s Party: Organize your WP20 Celebration!\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=14546\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:77:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2023/03/lets-party-organize-your-wp20-celebration/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:2714:\"<p>Join WordPress enthusiasts from across the globe on May 27, 2023, as they come together to celebrate its 20th anniversary!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Regardless of how you use WordPress or where you call home, you are invited to celebrate this great milestone. Plan a larger party that includes your entire meetup, spend the day coworking with a group of friends, or hang out virtually online.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Whatever your style, celebrate in your time zone, your way. WordPress has some resources to help you party.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/handbook/meetup-organizer/\">Meetup Organizer handbook</a> has a section dedicated to helping you plan your meetup’s <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/handbook/meetup-organizer/anniversary-celebrations/\">anniversary celebration</a>. You’ll find email and Meetup.com templates that make sending your announcements and creating your events simple, as well as tips for planning a fun, safe, and inclusive event, in-person or online.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The <a href=\"https://wp20.wordpress.net/\">20th anniversary website</a> will list events as they are announced and scheduled by organizers, so check back regularly to see if there’s one in your area you’d like to join or help organize.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Meetup organizers, once your meetup’s WP20 Celebration is scheduled, email <a href=\"mailto:support@wordcamp.org\">support@wordcamp.org</a> using the subject <strong>WP20 Celebration</strong> and include a link to your meetup event. Events will be reviewed to ensure they have all the necessary details before inclusion on wp20.wordpress.net. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And don’t forget the new swag!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Starting in April, meetup organizers can <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/handbook/meetup-organizer/anniversary-celebrations/request-swag-for-in-person-anniversary-celebrations/\">order complimentary kits of official anniversary swag</a>, including limited-edition stickers, buttons, and pencils that can be shipped to your meetup at no cost to you. Additional items, such as pennants, shirts, hoodies, keychains, and more, are also available for purchase at the <a href=\"https://mercantile.wordpress.org/\">official WordPress store</a> while supplies last, beginning in early March.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, whether you’re sporting new anniversary swag or your old favorites from your closet, join WordPress enthusiasts on Saturday, May 27, for a globe-spanning WordPress celebration. Use hashtag #WP20 to share your passion for WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Don’t have an active meetup in your area? It’s not too late to <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/handbook/meetup-organizer/getting-started/interest-form/\">start one</a>.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Thu, 02 Mar 2023 20:21:44 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:12:\"Cate DeRosia\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:42;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:45:\"Do The Woo Community: Do the Woo, Version 4.0\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=74585\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:43:\"https://dothewoo.io/do-the-woo-version-4-0/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:300:\"<p>Well, this is it. Learn all about Do the Woo version 4.0.</p>\n<p>&gt;&gt; The post <a rel=\"nofollow\" href=\"https://dothewoo.io/do-the-woo-version-4-0/\">Do the Woo, Version 4.0</a> appeared first on <a rel=\"nofollow\" href=\"https://dothewoo.io\">Do the Woo - a WooCommerce Builder Community</a>	.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Thu, 02 Mar 2023 11:30:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:43;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:71:\"HeroPress: WordPress helps me unwind – story of a part-time developer\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:56:\"https://heropress.com/?post_type=heropress-essays&p=5298\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:186:\"https://heropress.com/essays/wordpress-helps-me-unwind-story-of-a-part-time-developer/#utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=wordpress-helps-me-unwind-story-of-a-part-time-developer\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:13606:\"<img width=\"1024\" height=\"512\" src=\"https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/030123-min.jpg\" class=\"attachment-large size-large wp-post-image\" alt=\"Ajay D\'Souza\" />\nHere is Ajay reading his own story aloud.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n<p>In October 2023, I will complete 20 years of my association with WordPress. What started as an experiment soon became an integral part of my life.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Hi! I am Ajay D&#8217;Souza. I am the author of several completely free WordPress plugins, and this is my WordPress story.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 id=\"h-in-the-beginning\">In the beginning&#8230;</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>I vaguely recall always having a passion for computers during my school days. Then, it was <a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logo_(programming_language)\">Logo</a>. It was only in mid-2000 that I discovered HTML. I had initially set out to learn C or C++ and got distracted by this language that allowed me to build webpages.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I created a site on Sherlock Holmes by hand on a free host. I learnt a bit of PHP, which helped me create dynamic portions of the site. But I still didn&#8217;t know what MySQL was.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In late 2003, when yet another free host closed its shutters, I finally bought <a href=\"https://ajaydsouza.com/\">ajaydsouza.com</a>. This site has remained my home on the web